[saaypundit]

The notion that he's a scape goat is somewhat absurd.

Look, Mkhi is the player I expected to have an instant positive impact due to his age and experience. I figured Pogba would be a mint signing, but would have his ups and downs due to his age and fee, while I expected Zlatan to struggle more adapting to the pace and defenders in the league.

I said it at the start of the season, Mkhi isn't playing well but his stats are mint (which they were), but sooner rather than later his stats will either reflect the way he's actually playing and we'll have a problem, or he'll gradually improve.....People were too focused on his stats, more assist than Coutinho's best season at Liverpool etc etc. Too focused on the assist stats, and not bothering to think about how the player is actually performing and the consequence for the rest of the team.

Yesterday was another example, he'd pull off something utter mint, like what looks like an easy body feint and get into a brilliant position only to just lob the ball straight to a Southampton player. All the time in the world to put in a cross, ends up a mile away from the closest United player. So boo hoo he starts on the left, but here's the counter attacking genius player who is played on by Rashford where we have a mint chance to punish Southampton on the counter, and he floats in one of the worst crosses I've ever seen..Yet, he ends up delivering one great cross which Lingard should've scored from. For me, I'd prefer better deliveries on all his other crosses, especially from that counter attack which Rashford started.

The whole argument boils down to how much of the individuals performance is related to the system, tactics and strategy implemented by the manager.

For example, if a player at Man City fails to perform, you can comfortably say that most of that is down to the individual because the system, tactics and strategy work.

At United, the system DOES NOT work. In fact, I believe that there isn't any guidance provided by the manager when it comes to attacking. Because of this, players are struggling to perform. The cumulative effect of this is that players feel the pressure to perform and then start second guessing themselves. They stop playing on instinct. They take extra touches. They don't play quick enough. They start doing what is safe etc etc.

If a player plays poorly at United, you can attribute at least half the responsibility of that to the system and hence the manager. We did it when LVG played the slow, blunt and purposeless football. Di Maria said to himself, forget this crap, I'm off. We made Di Maria look like how Mkhi looks now BECAUSE of the system, strategy and tactics of the manager.

Mkhi is a top quality player. You cannot dispute that. When it comes to Lingard, Martial and Rashford, you can dispute their quality.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Weird. Whilst he was Bebe like yesterday, he actually tried to get more involved and actually offered more than anyone else. Rashford, Lingard, Martial were significantly worse than him. Not that its saying much, but we looked worse when he came off.

I think its clear that the pressures has got to him and he seemed to be trying too hard to grab an assist or create something.

I actually liked the way we used him and Mata against Burnley in dominating the ball. In all his shitness, he still is technically very sound and can carry the ball forward.

 

[James Peril]

Weird. Whilst he was Bebe like yesterday, he actually tried to get more involved and actually offered more than anyone else. Rashford, Lingard, Martial were significantly worse than him. Not that its saying much, but we looked worse when he came off.

I think its clear that the pressures has got to him and he seemed to be trying too hard to grab an assist or create something.

I agree. Just like it’s better for a striker to miss five sitters relative to missing no sitters since you don’t get any chances. Mkhi involved himself very well, but completely screwed up the delivery. Why? Because he’s cold, he hasn’t played for ages and that’s what happens.

 

[MThomas]

The whole argument boils down to how much of the individuals performance is related to the system, tactics and strategy implemented by the manager.

For example, if a player at Man City fails to perform, you can comfortably say that most of that is down to the individual because the system, tactics and strategy work.

At United, the system DOES NOT work. In fact, I believe that there isn't any guidance provided by the manager when it comes to attacking. Because of this, players are struggling to perform. The cumulative effect of this is that players feel the pressure to perform and then start second guessing themselves. They stop playing on instinct. They take extra touches. They don't play quick enough. They start doing what is safe etc etc.

If a player plays poorly at United, you can attribute at least half the responsibility of that to the system and hence the manager. We did it when LVG played the slow, blunt and purposeless football. Di Maria said to himself, forget this crap, I'm off. We made Di Maria look like how Mkhi looks now BECAUSE of the system, strategy and tactics of the manager.

Mkhi is a top quality player. You cannot dispute that. When it comes to Lingard, Martial and Rashford, you can dispute their quality.

The system, tactics and strategy does not explain why he can't get the fecking basics right...It doesn't explain his passing and crossing when in good positions.

He's had more shite seasons than good seasons, which undermines the idea that he is a top quality player

 

[Mourinhonista]

The system, tactics and strategy does not explain why he can't get the fecking basics right...It doesn't explain his passing and crossing when in good positions.

He's had more shite seasons than good seasons, which undermines the idea that he is a top quality player

Yesterday one of his crossings was spot on. He has what it takes and overall you don't win player of year in the Bundesliga if you're not a 'top quality player'. In this case i mostly blame Mourinho, he brought him in and doesn't get the most of him. Why did he freeze him out of the squad for weeks, why doesn't he let him play in his best position? Mkhitaryan is a fragile guy, that's nothing new to the world, maybe now it's difficult because there might be some things from which there's no coming back

 

[saaypundit]

The system, tactics and strategy does not explain why he can't get the fecking basics right...It doesn't explain his passing and crossing when in good positions.

If you read my post properly, you would see that I attributed that to the cumulative effect of playing in a poorly managed team. Put Mkhi's performances into context. His he the only one producing sub par performances? No. Is the team attacking well? No. Therefore the system, tactics and strategy (which are the responsibility of the manager) are the problem. This is the main problem. Sort that out and then we can talk about who is the better individual.

He's had more shite seasons than good seasons, which undermines the idea that he is a top quality player

He is the best attacking midfielder we have. Mourinho just doesn't know how to get the best out of him.

 

[MThomas]

Yesterday one of his crossings was spot on. He has what it takes and overall you don't win player of year in the Bundesliga if you're not a 'top quality player'. In this case i mostly blame Mourinho, he brought him in and doesn't get the most of him. Why did he freeze him out of the squad for weeks, why doesn't he let him play in his best position? Mkhitaryan is a fragile guy, that's nothing new to the world, maybe now it's difficult because there might be some things from which there's no coming back

One of his crosses Well give him a fecking diploma and ship him off to Germany...

Kagawa was also voted player of the year

And the one when Rashford started the counter attack, when Mkhi was in a brilliant position, and he completely fluffed it because the pressure was on him to deliver. Or his other crosses from great positions, which resulted in either a throw in on the other side or a goal kick. Or when he's not under pressure and he ends up passing the ball straight to the opposition.

He's had one mint season in Germany

 

[MThomas]

If you read my post properly, you would see that I attributed that to the cumulative effect of playing in a poorly managed team. Put Mkhi's performances into context. His he the only one producing sub par performances? No. Is the team attacking well? No. Therefore the system, tactics and strategy (which are the responsibility of the manager) are the problem. This is the main problem. Sort that out and then we can talk about who is the better individual.

He is the best attacking midfielder we have. Mourinho just doesn't know how to get the best out of him.

The main problem is that he struggles under pressure, it's not a cumulative effect of playing for a side that's struggling. There's always an excuse for Mkhi, oh he's only suited for this and for that, oh he's an attacking player so his passing is supposed to be off, oh it's this, oh he's got a new haircut.

So he's the perfect counter attacking player, a top quality player, and he fluffs it time and time again, but it's obviously never his fault.

 

[AndyJ1985]

There's nothing good to say about him. He's a truly abysmal footballer who reeks of weakness and cowardice.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Shadow of the sensational player he was at Dortmund. Really depressing whats happened to him at united.

While he has to take a lot of the blame i do think if we had a manager better at working with attacking players and with a better man a mangement style it woudn't have gone so horrendously wrong.

 

[Foxbatt]

His crossing was terrible yesterday but he is not a left winger. People forget that he did carry the ball to the final third and it was only his final ball that was terrible. But so was the final ball of almost everyone else including Rashford and Mata. He also did have a shot on target.
I say, give him a few more games but on the right this time and let see how he gets on. Technically he is a very very good player. Where were you guys when he was playing well last season and earlier this season? Or when he scored those wonderful goals for us last season? Players like that do not suddenly become terrible players in a few months.

 

[hn4manunited]

I’m really saddened to see him like this. Feel bad for him really. It’s really tough to play for a big club with a big fanbase with big expectations. Some players like mikhi who overanalyzes their own every move and are overcritical of themselves will never make it at the top clubs. You have to analyze and be critical of yourself but you have to move on. Most of the big players who are talented and make it at big clubs usually have a big ego and self believe. They just shrug off their mistakes and move on to go and go again!

 

[sunama]

I agree. Just like it’s better for a striker to miss five sitters relative to missing no sitters since you don’t get any chances. Mkhi involved himself very well, but completely screwed up the delivery. Why? Because he’s cold, he hasn’t played for ages and that’s what happens.

And why has he missed so much game time (ie. sitting on the bench). Because he's been crap.
Perhaps you are suggesting that we play players who are really bad, just so they don't go out of form.
Miki has been bad for a long long time. He played badly game after game and Jose gave him chance after chance.
People on this forum were puzzled why Jose kept picking Miki.
So, please don't try and make out that Miki is not to blame for playing consistently bad.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

His crossing was terrible yesterday but he is not a left winger. People forget that he did carry the ball to the final third and it was only his final ball that was terrible. But so was the final ball of almost everyone else including Rashford and Mata. He also did have a shot on target.
I say, give him a few more games but on the right this time and let see how he gets on. Technically he is a very very good player. Where were you guys when he was playing well last season and earlier this season? Or when he scored those wonderful goals for us last season? Players like that do not suddenly become terrible players in a few months.

This is actually what we lack. Only he and Martial (to some extent, Pogba) have shown that they're capable of doing this. I do think it's a little harsh to jump on his back for a performance such as yesterdays as he's clearly under a lot of pressure. I'd give him another chance, it's not like we have a WC player waiting in the wings.

 

[Tony999]

The whole argument boils down to how much of the individuals performance is related to the system, tactics and strategy implemented by the manager.

For example, if a player at Man City fails to perform, you can comfortably say that most of that is down to the individual because the system, tactics and strategy work.

At United, the system DOES NOT work. In fact, I believe that there isn't any guidance provided by the manager when it comes to attacking. Because of this, players are struggling to perform. The cumulative effect of this is that players feel the pressure to perform and then start second guessing themselves. They stop playing on instinct. They take extra touches. They don't play quick enough. They start doing what is safe etc etc.

If a player plays poorly at United, you can attribute at least half the responsibility of that to the system and hence the manager. We did it when LVG played the slow, blunt and purposeless football. Di Maria said to himself, forget this crap, I'm off. We made Di Maria look like how Mkhi looks now BECAUSE of the system, strategy and tactics of the manager.

Mkhi is a top quality player. You cannot dispute that. When it comes to Lingard, Martial and Rashford, you can dispute their quality.

I fully agree, you have an excellent vision on the reality.

 

[Red_toad]

And why has he missed so much game time (ie. sitting on the bench). Because he's been crap.
Perhaps you are suggesting that we play players who are really bad, just so they don't go out of form.
Miki has been bad for a long long time. He played badly game after game and Jose gave him chance after chance.
People on this forum were puzzled why Jose kept picking Miki.
So, please don't try and make out that Miki is not to blame for playing consistently bad.

He's the new Rooney, let's just play him until he does something that makes him looks like a footballer, then we can bask in the glory and give him a free pass for a few weeks.
Mikhi was terrible, should be capable of far far more.

 

[K2K]

Should be sold asap.

This is evidently not working for either party.

 

[Jazz]

For sure Jose's system isn't helping as such. However, Miki just doesn't do well under pressure. This is not the right environment for him.
Simple things that he gets wrong has nothing to do with system or manager, it's just him.

It's a shame but probably best to part company.

And the club should make sure they have a complete profile of any new players they buy - anyone without a tough mentality should not be brought to United, especially at this uncertain time as the pressure is absolutely relentless. You really need strong minded players to cope.

 

[Ekeke]

The notion that he's a scape goat is somewhat absurd.

Look, Mkhi is the player I expected to have an instant positive impact due to his age and experience. I figured Pogba would be a mint signing, but would have his ups and downs due to his age and fee, while I expected Zlatan to struggle more adapting to the pace and defenders in the league.

I said it at the start of the season, Mkhi isn't playing well but his stats are mint (which they were), but sooner rather than later his stats will either reflect the way he's actually playing and we'll have a problem, or he'll gradually improve.....People were too focused on his stats, more assist than Coutinho's best season at Liverpool etc etc. Too focused on the assist stats, and not bothering to think about how the player is actually performing and the consequence for the rest of the team.

Yesterday was another example, he'd pull off something utter mint, like what looks like an easy body feint and get into a brilliant position only to just lob the ball straight to a Southampton player. All the time in the world to put in a cross, ends up a mile away from the closest United player. So boo hoo he starts on the left, but here's the counter attacking genius player who is played on by Rashford where we have a mint chance to punish Southampton on the counter, and he floats in one of the worst crosses I've ever seen..Yet, he ends up delivering one great cross which Lingard should've scored from. For me, I'd prefer better deliveries on all his other crosses, especially from that counter attack which Rashford started.

So what you're saying is, he created a great chance and did a few good things but ultimately was a bit disappointing with some of his crosses and choices. Well no shit, who has said otherwise?

He's being scapegoated by the extreme posters who are saying he cant pass, cant cross and/or want him sold right away. Not by the people who are pointing out some of his poor play.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

The whole argument boils down to how much of the individuals performance is related to the system, tactics and strategy implemented by the manager.

For example, if a player at Man City fails to perform, you can comfortably say that most of that is down to the individual because the system, tactics and strategy work.

At United, the system DOES NOT work. In fact, I believe that there isn't any guidance provided by the manager when it comes to attacking. Because of this, players are struggling to perform. The cumulative effect of this is that players feel the pressure to perform and then start second guessing themselves. They stop playing on instinct. They take extra touches. They don't play quick enough. They start doing what is safe etc etc.

If a player plays poorly at United, you can attribute at least half the responsibility of that to the system and hence the manager. We did it when LVG played the slow, blunt and purposeless football. Di Maria said to himself, forget this crap, I'm off. We made Di Maria look like how Mkhi looks now BECAUSE of the system, strategy and tactics of the manager.

Mkhi is a top quality player. You cannot dispute that. When it comes to Lingard, Martial and Rashford, you can dispute their quality.

Basically what I have been saying too. He's bought players who can work as scalpels and uses them as blunt weapons in a system that is devoid of tempo and movement. Mhki is making fundamental errors but for the most part the system does not suit him. Bringing in big signings like Sanchez or Griezmann will not help either. They too will suffer from the lack of movement and willingless to cross rather than pass.

 

[Abhinav]

Mikhi is a confidence player and unfortunately for him, he is playing at a club where we can’t afford to indulge him through a sustained period of poor form. There might be some truth in the system not extracting the best out of him but the larger share of the blame lies with him. He is inconsistent in his passing, dribbling, crossing etc and does not help the team maintain sustained periods of pressure. All our players including Mikhi are going through a confidence crisis. You see that when they underhit/overhit passes, fail to control simple balls, take extra touches. However, Mikhi suffers the most when he is not confident and therefore at best, he can be a squad player for a club like Manchester United. It was the same for Nani who had similar issues, however, was technically and mentally much superior to Mikhi.

 

[King.of.Red]

Tired with people who always defend him. Man United need useful player unlike useless player like him. Hopefully the club sell him ASAP, this January window is the right time.

 

[Rampant-red]

Give him till the rest of the season. Still think there is something about to ignite here . One good game can change it all.

 

[Tony999]

Tired with people who always defend him. Man United need useful player unlike useless player like him. Hopefully the club sell him ASAP, this January window is the right time.

And i get tired with people who blaming the players. Blame the system. And the changes in de starting XI week in week out. Most of the players don't have the fully confident to feel be a part of the team. They all wan't to show what they are worth for the club. The pressure is high and everyone is scared to make mistakes. That is exactly happening. There is no sign of teamspirit. No fire in the team. Only in the eyes of Mourhino.

 

[Henry Gaervell]

I see he is in the matchday squad today, along with darmian. If both start my heart will really sink as it's going to be a physical game and both are weak in this regard, never mind their wonder weaknesses which are well documented.

If he's not performing at 28 and after 1.5 seasons to acclimitise to the prem, then I can't see when he will be good enough. Time to sell, if he goes back to Germany or to Italy then I think he will do well.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Bebe was better at crossing.

 

[2cents]

Not even bothered is he?

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's errrrr not very good.

 

[Lennon7]

Jesus Christ. Bribed?

 

[breakout67]

If he was coached by Guardiola that cross would've gotten a perfect connection and hit Rashford's foot at the perfect angle for a goal.

 

[Henry Gaervell]

Awful cross, folowed up by a undercooked pass to Victor L.

Everything he touches turns into muck. Really need to get rid of him

 

[Mihai92]

He doesnt have any desire or motivation to play for United. Someone should end his nightmare.

 

[SwansonsTache]

If we are trying to put him in the shop window we are doing it all wrong, don't let him near the football field and hope that potential buyers remember his last season for Dortmund.

 

[Redman24]

Bebe should be insulted being compared with mkhitaryan. If i was bebe's lawyer i would sue for libel. And send a cease and desist letter to every culprit that mentions his name next to mkhitaryan

 

[Andycoleno9]

Confidence- zero

 

[breakout67]

Was that Bebetaryan passing 5 yards straight to a Derby player?

 

[Lennon7]

Goodbye, Mkhi

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

What does Jose think is gonna happen if he plays him?
It didn't work out, sell and move on.

 

[Dir Wangem]

Confidence- zero

Came in here to write this. I don't think he's ever been this bad. At least not since he came to Germany and up until now.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Whether it's lack of confidence or lack of ability, it doesn't really matter. It all boils down to him being nowhere near good enough