[Robbie Boy]

Hats off to him, he keeps chipping in with the odd goal and always makes good runs. For all the hype someone like the Ox gets at Arsenal, Jesse has now scored more goals than he's managed in any season.

Yeah there's only about 9 months between them. I suppose AOC can say that he's never really found his best position but most of the hype was generated when he was a youngster at Southampton. I'm sure most Arsenal fans are disappointed how he's turned out, thus far.

As for Lingard, I don't really rate him and think he lacks several attributes to be a top level player. In fact, sometimes when I watch him, I think he would struggle to get into Championship teams. But he does have a knack of nicking a goal, as-well as missing some absolute sitters. If LvG goes this summer and we assemble a more functional team, a player like Lingard could thrive as a squad player or a starter in the lesser games. It's hard to know what his future holds. Very overrated by some on here, though but I guess that goes with the territory.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He could score 50 goals and you'd all still moan. He deserves his place in the team right now. Yes maybe in the new era he'll turn into a squad player but right now his place is justified.

I wouldn't, but there is more to the game then just scoring goals. One thing I have gave him credit for is that he does certainly seem to know where the goal is and fair play to the guy he is chipping in with a fair share of goals in a team that struggles to get many. Is he a good enough all around player? No he isn't but I feel like I have beat that drum to death talking about it, So as long as he keeps scoring, I'll leave him alone. A competent manager will probably move him on but i'll talk about that if we get a competent manager in first.

 

[Thisistheone]

Yeah there's only about 9 months between them. I suppose AOC can say that he's never really found his best position but most of the hype was generated when he was a youngster at Southampton. I'm sure most Arsenal fans are disappointed how he's turned out, thus far.

As for Lingard, I don't really rate him and think he lacks several attributes to be a top level player. In fact, sometimes when I watch him, I think he would struggle to get into Championship teams. But he does have a knack of nicking a goal, as-well as missing some absolute sitters. If LvG goes this summer and we assemble a more functional team, a player like Lingard could thrive as a squad player or a starter in the lesser games. It's hard to know what his future holds. Very overrated by some on here, though but I guess that goes with the territory.

I also think he'll end up as a squad player. A very handy one though and it's great to still see local lads making it here. He's not as flashy or eye catching as some young players but as long as he keeps chipping in with goals, who can fault him.

 

[SSSSnake]

I wouldn't, but there is more to the game then just scoring goals. One thing I have gave him credit for is that he does certainly seem to know where the goal is and fair play to the guy he is chipping in with a fair share of goals in a team that struggles to get many. Is he a good enough all around player? No he isn't but I feel like I have beat that drum to death talking about it, So as long as he keeps scoring, I'll leave him alone. A competent manager will probably move him on but i'll talk about that if we get a competent manager in first.

Yes and completely agree there's more to scoring goals. But to be fair to Jesse he does work hard for the team and will track back. Where I feel he needs to improve is by being braver and taking his man on as he seems to take the easy option. His finishing can be hit or miss too. The likes of Depay deserves more stick then Jesse...he was horrible yesterday.

 

[drdoityourself]

Yes and completely agree there's more to scoring goals. But to be fair to Jesse he does work hard for the team and will track back. Where I feel he needs to improve is by being braver and taking his man on as he seems to take the easy option. His finishing can be hit or miss too. The likes of Depay deserves more stick then Jesse...he was horrible yesterday.

No he was one of our better players. He had some horrible shots, that will probably be the only thing you'll choose to remember about his game, but he created two or three fantastic opportunities, was always positive and making an effort to do something with our possession. Lingard passed it on to the next player every time he got the ball. Buthe does have the ability to pop up in goalscoring positions, I'll give him that.

 

[Charlie Foley]

I think it's great to see that in this day and age we can still see young lads come through the academy and get a shot at the first team.
If people think he's not good enough to get the playing time he wants, well, that's not entirely his fault. He's not picking himself, and it's not like any more established first team player is being unfairly kept out of the team.
Now, the fact that he's a regular feature is quite an indictment of our current situation, as there's no one performing well enough to take his place.

Positives in addition to seeing a youth team player come through are his ability to chip in with a few goals, he has a bit of pace and he's quite a hard worker. I'd like to see him take his man on a bit more but that's an issue with the whole team for a while now. It is frustrating when he misses chances he should really score. However, they always say it's better to be getting into those positions and missing than not getting those chances at all. And it's not like any player who replaces him is getting those opportunities, let alone scoring them.

So while some off his misses are really poor, like PSG at home, I'd ask why the only one chances keep falling to is a young lad with questionable shooting

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

He should be on about 9 goals for the season by now, given some of the chances he's missed. But every single one of the 5 goals he has scored have been classy finishes. The curler against West Brom, the overlap and nutmeg goal away to Newcastle, a diving header versus Stoke, one of the goals of the season away to Chelsea, and a nicely taken side foot volley on Monday night from a peach of a by Herrera. Easy to miss.

He should have scored from Memphis' through ball though.

A very useful squad player to have around. He makes runs that can be found by good passers.

 

[Escobar]

He wont be at United in 2 years. Well, in case we do not improve under a new manager, he might still be a starter

 

[Striker10]

Some are much too hard on Jesse. I don't think he's a winger and that's the problem. Anyone remember fletcher on the wing? Lingard is better centrally but the problem that we have is that we have a lot of players who play a nice five yard pass and who can move. We don't mix it well enough. Linqard is not a typical winger so that means that we rely on the full back more on his side. He's missed a few chances but I think he can have more influence centrally running through midfield. If we improve the balance of players/play then we have a useful player here. It's unreasonable to ask Jesse to do something more expansive - when he's not a winger. So people need to shift focus and look at the elements in the squad that we lack. Jesse is not a problem. It's a good sign when, even if you are on the outskirts, you can score goals. He's missed a few but come back. I think the problems lie elsewhere.

We do need a winger - similar to martial or someone who get's it in early but people should know Lingards game. He isn't a traditional winger and peoples expectations are unreasonable and probably most never saw him in the youth teams. Anyone that saw him in the youth teams, knows why it's not an ideal position for him. I don't remember any account of anyone claiming Jesse, was a winger. That's because he isn't a winger.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Tbf, he has been shunted out on the right side when it's clear he is better on the left wing, but we have Martial there.
You can't fault his attitude on the pitch, he gives his all both with and without the ball - something Memphis could learn from. Also scored some brilliant goals.

I'm still far from giving up on him, i think he contributes more than alot of the other players in our team.

 

[Sammyjunn]

3 goals and 2 assists in his last 6 games, some have been against poor clubs but that's a decent return for a winger and he proves to be quite an important player for us. Cant understand the amount of stick he gets, he's no Reus no but he's doing a decent job for us.

 

[pacifictheme]

3 goals and 2 assists in his last 6 games, some have been against poor clubs but that's a decent return for a winger and he proves to be quite an important player for us. Cant understand the amount of stick he gets, he's no Reus no but he's doing a decent job for us.

His overall play is no better than Rooneys yet he gets away with it for being "young" and homegrown. Hes had a decent little run of form but hes nowhere near good enough to be a starter for us if we want to get back to europes top table.

He was also involved in some show boating v shrewsbury which was pretty classless...

 

[Americano]

He was also involved in some show boating v shrewsbury which was pretty classless...

I missed that - what happened?

 

[pacifictheme]

I missed that - what happened?

Just a couple a flicks when we were 2 or 3 0 up. Pretty sure he got nailed after one of them but i genuinely can't remember specifics. Nothing huge but it wasn't normal play for him. He does seem a bit like that, he even has a fancy little goal celebration, which makes me think he thinks hes big time and annoys me...

 

[m1y2]

Just a couple a flicks when we were 2 or 3 0 up. Pretty sure he got nailed after one of them but i genuinely can't remember specifics. Nothing huge but it wasn't normal play for him. He does seem a bit like that, he even has a fancy little goal celebration, which makes me think he thinks hes big time and annoys me...

you must be really grumpy person arent you? Rooney's annoying, he's shit for more than three years now... vs the academy player who stepped up this season even though playd out of position and showed he can be more useful than flop depay and people hate him, there must be something wrong annoying is when 60milion player like dimaria flops, when we pay such money 13 million for "best rightback" in seria A and he flops, not when a player from our academy with potentially squad player quality gets a chance and provides decent services, when rooney scored even though was still shit everybody shut up..

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Just a couple a flicks when we were 2 or 3 0 up. Pretty sure he got nailed after one of them but i genuinely can't remember specifics. Nothing huge but it wasn't normal play for him. He does seem a bit like that, he even has a fancy little goal celebration, which makes me think he thinks hes big time and annoys me...

Another fan who seems to pick and choose what the " United Ethos" is.

I don't like his celebration but he IS big time. He has the ability to EASILY be a premiere league footballer for the rest of his life.

 

[Brophs]

Quite a bit of hate for a player who has easily outperformed most of our big names this season (see Schneiderlin, Mata, Herrera, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini). He's come into a badly misfiring squad and scored goals, gotten into good positions with regularity (albeit, admittedly, he's been a bit wasteful at times) and generally given us another dimension that we didn't have. And, most importantly, he's one of our own.

Yeah, he's not perfect and he's probably not likely to end up as a really top player, but for a first full season in the league he's shown loads of promise and is comfortably suggesting he can be a useful player at this level. He needs to be given a chance to see what he might become. This weird idea that floats around football where you're either good enough to be world class immediately or you're shit is pretty tiresome. And as we're so shit at the moment people use players like Lingard as an emblem for everything they see as being wrong at the club. How many young players come into a really poor, stodgy team and set the world alight? That's he's properly contributing at this stage has to be seen as a positive, IMO.

 

[Raees]

Quite a bit of hate for a player who has easily outperformed most of our big names this season (see Schneiderlin, Mata, Herrera, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini). He's come into a badly misfiring squad and scored goals, gotten into good positions with regularity (albeit, admittedly, he's been a bit wasteful at times) and generally given us another dimension that we didn't have. And, most importantly, he's one of our own.

Yeah, he's not perfect and he's probably not likely to end up as a really top player, but for a first full season in the league he's shown loads of promise and is comfortably suggesting he can be a useful player at this level. He needs to be given a chance to see what he might become. This weird idea that floats around football where you're either good enough to be world class immediately or you're shit is pretty tiresome. And as we're so shit at the moment people use players like Lingard as an emblem for everything they see as being wrong at the club. How many young players come into a really poor, stodgy team and set the world alight? That's he's properly contributing at this stage has to be seen as a positive, IMO.

Couldn't put it better myself. I really don't get the disregard for Lingard. Comfortably one of our more committed performers this year.. is tactically sound, great enthusiasm, chips in with key goals. He's a lad I would love to keep around the squad for years to come if he can maintain and improve this level.

In a team that is completely devoid of pace, energy and workrate in certain areas, we should be grateful to have someone like him around. He's not a first teamer of the future, but he's a versatile player who thanks to his athleticism can be quite similar to a Park with goals for us.. no reason why he can't be moulded into that sort of player with the energy and personality he has.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Couldn't put it better myself. I really don't get the disregard for Lingard. Comfortably one of our more committed performers this year.. is tactically sound, great enthusiasm, chips in with key goals. He's a lad I would love to keep around the squad for years to come if he can maintain and improve this level.

In a team that is completely devoid of pace, energy and workrate in certain areas, we should be grateful to have someone like him around. He's not a first teamer of the future, but he's a versatile player who thanks to his athleticism can be quite similar to a Park with goals for us.. no reason why he can't be moulded into that sort of player with the energy and personality he has.

exactly. for every game that Ronaldo or Rooney won for us, it was players like Park or O'shea that made us win the Must win games.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Lingard won't ever be as good as Park.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Lingard won't ever be as good as Park.

If he can be as good as O'shea then he has a place in this squad. Your taking out our lack of success this season out on him. He is there simply because Mata, Januzaj and co do not have a single bit of pace about them in the wider positions. Without him, we would be worse off this season.

 

[Raees]

exactly. for every game that Ronaldo or Rooney won for us, it was players like Park or O'shea that made us win the Must win games.

Bottom line is that in big games, big attacking players are usually a) heavily marked b) under intense pressure to perform c) usually lack the work ethic to fight in really tight encounters where nothing is going their way.. and therefore it is these lesser players like Lingard who usually find themselves in space and put themselves about having a big say in the final outcome in these tight encounters.

Having strong squad players is essential but they're hard to find because if they're too good.. they basically become star players in their own right and develop an ego/or become tightly marked themselves. Someone like Willian for example is the best 'secondary' attacking player in the world in my opinion i.e. he accepts being the lesser talent in his team and yet is that influential he's overtaken Hazard et al in how important he is to the side. Now question is, now he knows he is so damn important.. will he continue showing that work rate or will be lessen his defensive output and demand to be given more freedom to focus on his attacking duties. Does he want to be the main man? or on the flip side, does every team now see him as a huge threat and wants to limit his influence on the game?

Its about finding the player with the right level of ability/mentality.. Lingard for me has that perfect blend of decent ability, workrate and lack of ego to be a good squad player for us. He'd be more than happy to stay on the bench and get the odd game here and there.. as long as he felt useful. He's not the type to come off the bench and let you down. That should be valued. Compare that to Memphis who.. if he doesn't break through and become a first teamer, you might as well get rid. He'd be a shitty squad player but a potentially brilliant first team player.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Bottom line is that in big games, big attacking players are usually a) heavily marked b) under intense pressure to perform c) usually lack the work ethic to fight in really tight encounters where nothing is going their way.. and therefore it is these lesser players like Lingard who usually find themselves in space and put themselves about having a big say in the final outcome in these tight encounters.

Having strong squad players is essential but they're hard to find because if they're too good.. they basically become star players in their own right and develop an ego/or become tightly marked themselves. Someone like Willian for example is the best 'secondary' attacking player in the world in my opinion i.e. he accepts being the lesser talent in his team and yet is that influential he's overtaken Hazard et al in how important he is to the side. Now question is, now he knows he is so damn important.. will he continue showing that work rate or will be lessen his defensive output and demand to be given more freedom to focus on his attacking duties. Does he want to be the main man? or on the flip side, does every team now see him as a huge threat and wants to limit his influence on the game?

Its about finding the player with the right level of ability/mentality.. Lingard for me has that perfect blend of decent ability, workrate and lack of ego to be a good squad player for us. He'd be more than happy to stay on the bench and get the odd game here and there.. as long as he felt useful. He's not the type to come off the bench and let you down. That should be valued. Compare that to Memphis who.. if he doesn't break through and become a first teamer, you might as well get rid. He'd be a shitty squad player but a potentially brilliant first team player.

Yes very good post. Considering Memphis does reach a desired potential; we still have to go out of our way to get a RW who fits the system. Though that might push Lingard back initially, I believe he is the only player that could come off the bench and play any of the front 3 roles (LW,CAM,RW) to a similar degree (not standard) almost like a plug-in for any injury/form issues.

Januzaj, pereita, mata, valencia, young have no ability to be a Winger in this system because simply they dont have the ability to be a forward.

Lingard's work ethic will shine whenever he gets to play in the centre as it would be important to have a CAM who can overlap the Left or Right wings; especially the big games when a bit of respect of the opposition is needed.

 

[Ole90+3]

Bottom line is that in big games, big attacking players are usually a) heavily marked b) under intense pressure to perform c) usually lack the work ethic to fight in really tight encounters where nothing is going their way.. and therefore it is these lesser players like Lingard who usually find themselves in space and put themselves about having a big say in the final outcome in these tight encounters.

Having strong squad players is essential but they're hard to find because if they're too good.. they basically become star players in their own right and develop an ego/or become tightly marked themselves. Someone like Willian for example is the best 'secondary' attacking player in the world in my opinion i.e. he accepts being the lesser talent in his team and yet is that influential he's overtaken Hazard et al in how important he is to the side. Now question is, now he knows he is so damn important.. will he continue showing that work rate or will be lessen his defensive output and demand to be given more freedom to focus on his attacking duties. Does he want to be the main man? or on the flip side, does every team now see him as a huge threat and wants to limit his influence on the game?

Its about finding the player with the right level of ability/mentality.. Lingard for me has that perfect blend of decent ability, workrate and lack of ego to be a good squad player for us. He'd be more than happy to stay on the bench and get the odd game here and there.. as long as he felt useful. He's not the type to come off the bench and let you down. That should be valued. Compare that to Memphis who.. if he doesn't break through and become a first teamer, you might as well get rid. He'd be a shitty squad player but a potentially brilliant first team player.

Excellent post. Especially the middle paragraph.

Brilliant way to look at an overall squad.

 

[pacifictheme]

Another fan who seems to pick and choose what the " United Ethos" is.

I don't like his celebration but he IS big time. He has the ability to EASILY be a premiere league footballer for the rest of his life.

Do i? Pretty sure its just my opinion on what i would like from players. Nothing to do with the united ethos, whatever that is.

 

[gza the genius]

I can't understand why people don't like him. He's a player who has been with us essentially his entire life, he works hard and runs constantly. Although I do think we should be looking to get someone better than him I still think he would be a great squad player to have. I also think in this current team he offers us something that we don't really have with his constant movement and quick passing, he opens things up. I certainly like him on the right more than I like Mata out there.

 

[facund]

Nice to see some sensible discussion, occupying the middle ground, about Jesse. Great post @Raees

The lads doing pretty well when you consider how disjointed the team has been all season and he definitely brings qualities to the mix that would otherwise be missing. I think he is clearly our best option on the right for now and could blossom in to a really handy squad player. Taking in to account that it is his first full season at this level and he has been played largely on the right, not his optimum position IMO, he is one of the few that can hold their head up high. He'll never get near a ballon d'or or be the main-man but he can definitely play a part in a team/squad competing at the highest level.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Nice to see some sensible discussion, occupying the middle ground, about Jesse. Great post @Raees

The lads doing pretty well when you consider how disjointed the team has been all season and he definitely brings qualities to the mix that would otherwise be missing. I think he is clearly our best option on the right for now and could blossom in to a really handy squad player. Taking in to account that it is his first full season at this level and he has been played largely on the right, not his optimum position IMO, he is one of the few that can hold their head up high. He'll never get near a ballon d'or or be the main-man but he can definitely play a part in a team/squad competing at the highest level.

This. People not seeing his importance because we have a hard working player whilst our ' Flair players ' are either off form, not good enough or yet to be bought. The squad is far from complete enough to see the importance of a hard worker amongst them.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I said I wouldn't criticise him again but he really is a poor player. Seemingly cannot beat a man or cross a ball, even against these minnows.

 

[Minimalist]

Has the energy and that's commendable but the quality just isn't there. Not a bad squad player but even that's debatable.

 

[Robbie Boy]

As I said in a post yesterday, he can look good sometimes and other times he looks like he would struggle in the Championship. He's been very wasteful tonight and he's making poor decisions.

 

[caisenma]

... yet he keeps showing up on the scoresheet. he is very, very fortunate to be as involved as he has.

 

[Ryan7]

I said I wouldn't criticise him again but he really is a poor player. Seemingly cannot beat a man or cross a ball, even against these minnows.

He really offers nothing whatsoever, except the odd goal. When he doesn't get a goal he does nothing else. Memphis really showed him up tonight.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Shite, but should've won a pen.

You could tell by the defender's reaction he knew he clipped him.

 

[Successful]

I can't stand his decisions. He's such a clown at times.

 

[Robbie Boy]

One of his worst performances for us so far.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I can't stand his decisions. He's such a clown at times.

People keep talking about his supposed pace and intelligence but I'm yet to really see either. His decision making was shocking tonight.

 

[Devil may care]

Put in the yards but doesn't run with the ball well enough for a player occupying the role he plays.

 

[soap]

Was fecking shit. If we hadn't won so convincingly his average rating would be 2 full points lower.

 

[drdoityourself]

As I said in the Memphis thread I have all the time in the world with positive players. That's why I just don't like watching Lingard play. His first instinct is always the safe backpass. He had a few opportunities to play a fast forward through pass but he had absolutely no interest in playing them. He puts in a shift, pops up in some good positions, but you could say that about almost any professional player.
Pereira came on, had the ball once, and beat more men (1) than Lingard did the whole game.