Personally I would call this delusional nonsense. but you can believe whatever you like. There have been and there plenty of people around the world eager to join ISIS without needing secret agents of the UK egging them on.
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
- Thread starter Tommy
- Start date
See edit of last post re mohammed al rashed
She has the right to appeal, but can't get into the UK to instruct her lawyers and lodge said appeal. Sounds fair.
Agreed BUT enabling her is not the job of the Supreme Court. 'Justice and Justness' again.
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing, just sharing my knowledge from the outside.
It's a pathetic means of legitisiming the government's abdication of its responsibilities though- the law doesn't exist in a vacuum. If jurisprudence doesn't have real world application it's pointless.
Of all the dangerous people who are in prison in the UK (or not even in prison, but who are known to be a threat and are being watched), this young woman must come fairly far down the list.
This has been considered for centuries yet we continue.
We don't have to agree with the law, just adhere to it.
There's something in it.
https://www.dailysabah.com/investig...-spy-with-daesh-link-faces-26-years-in-prison
Ah, the Spectator. Can always rely on them to give you a fair, measured and apolitical view!
I know, the Guardian is the golden standard on all things. Or the NYT or The Washington Post. I'm absolutely sure the great Owen Jones will hit the nail on the head on this case. Quite obviously those newspapers are completely apolitical!
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The debate is not that ISIS can attract fighters. The question and debate here is a country using such tactics. Propaganda is used by nations joining conflicts to arouse dislike and hatred of the enemy, warn of the consequences of defeat, and talk up benefits of its war aims in order to mobilise its people.
I still call it delusional bullshit. David Cameron and Boris have done their very best to say that ISIS and every Islamic terror attack has nothing to do with the real Islam. If they wanted to stir up hatred against muslims, they could have done it far more effectively.
Three young impressionable Muslim girls leaving the comfort of London and their families. The message, only a rumour at this moment is obviously aimed to shock the Muslim community of the atrocious and despicable intentions of ISIS. I'm not saying it's anyway correct. I'm just saying it's not beyond the secret services to action this for the bigger picture and not be distracted by details.
Lets face it, she was born and raised in the UK, left aged 15. If she was white and called "Emily Smith" she would be brought back to the UK for a trial.
Sounds interesting. I remember in a seminar at Uni, when we discussed this. One of the students was from West Yorkshire from the town of one of the 7/7 bombers. he had a different perspective to some of us initially, making the point that in her community, Govt. security policy could see her brother, or cousin, or father arrested and jailed, seemingly without any evidence having to be presented to a Court, for an indeterminate amount of time. That's a scary thought.
A trial for what? Terrorizing a Spanish tourist town with drunk British splendour?
I wonder what would happen if a white UK citizen went to the US to join a radicalist Qanon sect and voiced plans to overthrow the UK government.
She should be allowed back into the UK and stand trial and be dealt with that way. It's actually quite shameful the way this has been handled.
Sorry, your point is?
That girls that are 15 and are called Emily Smith, whatever colour, don't join organizations like IS, which is exceptionally barbaric, violent and cruel. IS as well as it's sympathizers are foreign problems.
Are you sure of that ? No white girls or white men join such orgs ?
A British girl of "whatever colour" aged 15 did join ISIS though, Shamima Begum. That is what the whole thread is about.
So no, it is not only a foreign problem. What a blinkered view. Do you think that barbaric, violent and cruel groups only exist outside of Britain?
Unless you don't really mean "whatever colour"? In which case you are also wrong.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41593659
British IS recruiter Sally-Anne Jones 'killed by drone'
At 15? No. That takes years of indoctrination and probably mom and dad being first cousins. It's extremely unlikely and a nonsense assumption. And even if it was possible, do you really think the British public and government would be more forgiving in that case? It seems to me any attempt at understanding for what she did would start from her background. And do you really believe that if Turkish redhead from a similar background would have done the same everybody would have wanted her back for trial?
In a survey of doctors and health professionals who left USA and European countries to join ISIS, discrimination was highlighted as a major factor in going to Syria.
Not simply someone saying the P word or N word etc but the issues like not wanting to go for drinks etc because of faith. So not welcomed/feeling welcomed etc
The P word and the N word in Europe? Not going for drinks with someone who some time later beheads or drives a tank over people who have drunk alcohol seems to me a matter of good character judgement rather than discrimination. Besides that why would I believe them anyway, not just because they joined IS which is quite an extreme reaction and not being welocmed a lousy excuse, quite a few muslims also have a habit of blaming everybody and everything but never their religion (or themselves, but that might differ between islamic cultures). I'm pretty sure the muslims I have drinks with would never join IS.
How on earth could that ever be a justification in joining the Islamic state?
If someone really decides they hate the West or they don't feel at home in a Western country, there are literally dozens of Islamic countries they can choose to visit/ live in, of all kinds of different cultures, types of Islamic practice and adherence to sharia law, where the bottom line is nowhere near as brutal as ISIS was.
I don't have the energy but there are tons of young white teens 17-20 year olds who have joined these orgs. There was a suicide bomber in Pakistan who was a pale emo kid with a big tattoo on his back some years ago.
You have to wonder what the excuse is for all the people joining IS who live in and have been brought up in muslim majority countries.
I don't think that's the reason. That's one of the reasons. Sorta like how almost every serial killer had a brutal/weird childhood but not anyone with a weird childhood goes on to kill. I think you have to have some level of insanity in you and then the rest is the perfect environment to wanna go and kill. Also never underestimate the appeal of fighting for a "cause" rather then living as a cog in the "boring system"
Why don't you enlighten us then?
You create the system, not hand out actual flyers.
Yes but in this case, the 'cause' involved killing infidels in a country far away from your own. ISIS were not exactly shy about telegraphing what they were doing in Iraq and Syria and some pretty otherwise normal people still decided to go over from the West, many of whom when caught somehow all seemed to be just butchers or engineers or doctors. God knows who was doing any actual fighting there.
I'm not sure people not changing their entire culture to hang out with a Muslim doctor is really the same as having a brutal childhood tbh and I can't see how that can in any way be used as a justification at all.
Kid gets raped by step dad when young, grows up to be a serial killer. I'm not justifying it but yes I can understand why he may have grown up with such a warped view of the world.
Muslim person grows up in the UK, grows up to become a doctor, doesn't get to go to the pub because they see it as against their religion, goes to join ISIS...nope, not the same for me. And I don't really know what people expect or want. Its engrained in British, American and European cultures, rightly or wrongly. A lot of hospital socials involve alcohol. Some non-drinkers still attend, some choose not to.
Either way, it should have about as much impact on their decision to join ISIS as their hair colour.
Well I'm sure there is an endless list of excuses, I just don't consider them good and legimate excuses.
Do you think the N and P word doesn't happen in europe?
Muslims having drinks with you?
Not all muslims are religuous. Some can be quite liberal. They drink, sex, watch porn, some even eat porks and love it.
Would you call them muslim?
Nice anecdote but doesn't really address the question.
Also noticed one of the early quotes in that book are from hassan al ashari (but that's another story).
I never understood these kind of anecdotes tbh
Yes well that would be the rest of the book.