He hasn't really though tbh, I don't hate Rooney btw
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 10
- Yellow cards
- 8
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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He had Martial, Rashford and Mata(let’s say for half of the time). Martial form also diminished around time of Rashford emergence. It’s not much but still something to work with. Wayne was moved around last year. Playing as a striker, nr 10 and finishing the league as a midfielder. It all ended up as Rooney’s worst ever season.
Excluding the goal and an assist he was anonymous in Bournemouth and Hull games. Same goes for Southampton one. It’s hard to ignore this aspect of his performances and say: “hey, he did single meaningful thing in every game”. I guess it’s kind of okey-ish atm, though there are bigger chances that he might stop contributing than that he’s going to hit some really good form in near future.
Speaking constructively I’d see Rooney as a right winger if Mhiki doesn’t get into his stride. Until Paul screws up his further chances he’s our main nr 10 in my eyes. Carrick-Herrera, Carrick-Schneid, Herrera-Schneid are combinations that can work behind him. I still have hope for Schneiderlin. Mou should do his utmost in an attempt to fill him with some much needed confidence, cause as you said, there’s an alarming vacancy for central midfielder.
I agree he hasn't been the "best" but he is far from the worst, that's the point I think is being made.
Put him on the wing. At least.
(Bolded part) Not hard to see why tho, absolutely no idea where he will be playing being asked to do everything job because no one else was stepping up.
It would be interesting to see that wide right position, I really worry about that midfield tho Carrick it seems isn't being trusted Morgan (although I share your optimism) and Ander and fellaini are just not good enough if we want to think of ourselves as title challenges.
Different season same problems.. No quality in midfield how long has this been an issue ha
Hopefully we'll hit a purple patch again soon
You actually used 3. Solid counting, lad.A sympathetic look at the Rooney situation:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/17/wayne-rooney-manchester-unitedDaniel Taylor said:
Hahaha, I still remember when all the self proclaimed experts told us that when Rooney gets dropped we'll suddenly reach the higher level of football and become the dynamic high flying fast kings of football Mou envisions with POGBA PLAYING #10 AND HERRERA AND MHIKI starting. That was great.
To be fair in the one game this has happened, 4 players started and played their first game (and minutes of the season) and another 2 came on with the same situation. Not exactly a big sample size to say that when Rooney doesn't start, our form won't improve.
A few people on here don't think logically when it comes to Wayne. If one game was enough to make judgements, Rooney shoulda been binned before the season started because he was woeful in the shield.
Rooney hate is boring now. Actually, it was boring then.
He's rated 9th best on this forum with Bailey, Blind, Ibrahimovich, DDG, Valencia and Shaw more than a whole point out of 10 higher.
Questions of bias would be naive also as the likes of Fellaini and Valencia who are often equally criticised outperform him, whilst apparent "favourites" like Herrera and Pogba are below him.
He's been mediocre at best in terms of the squad as a whole, a 5.6 out of 10. Not the worst, but nowhere near the best and certainly nowhere near good enough for the creative hub of the team.
Hoping Rooney starts today. Need a game where he makes some key passes, sets up a goal and then post match, gets slated for his performance in here.
Ill take that because last game we were lost without his link between midfield and attack. I want the team to perform first and players second.
Ill take that because last game we were lost without his link between midfield and attack. I want the team to perform first and players second.
This thread rumbles along in fine form. I particularly liked in the last few pages when one random guy demanded to see the statistical evidence and when confronted by cold, hard, raw statistical data and proceed to backflip, move the goalposts on the argument and continued to argue as though it never even happened. Amusing.
Away at Watford later today. I hope he continues his good form, we need to bounce back and keep our momentum up in the league. A few teams have fired a few early warning shots and we need to keep the cannons loaded.
His form this season has definitely been much much better than the first six months of last season, it is undeniable. Hell even the second half of the seasons by the comments in here you'd even logically have to draw a conclusion that he was much much better in the second half of the season. (Since he was so ghastly in the first six months). But still, people can't really take their foot off the throat on this issue. They're happy to turn around and say "What? Me? Being silly about it?" and get all personal over defending the position. Which is where most flares on the discussion end up setting the thread ablaze.
Imagine the directive of a forward being "stand up front between the two CB's, have as few touches as possible, get on the end of chances" and having to carry it out. No wonder Welbeck and co. upped stick and everyone eventually ended up leaving. Nightmarish stuff really.
Away at Watford later today. I hope he continues his good form, we need to bounce back and keep our momentum up in the league. A few teams have fired a few early warning shots and we need to keep the cannons loaded.
There is a genuinely credible discussion to be had in this sentiment, if people could keep themselves together for a spell. The style and chance creation didn't fluctuate significantly in the periods that Rooney was out of the side. Van Gaal even made comments on Rashford after his debut essentially saying "he ran around way to much in the first half and didn't stand up front and do nothing enough, I told him to stand still and do nothing more and he scored goals" (paraphrasing) LVG eventually dropped him for the Norwich game away for this reason. It was just a weird scenario, so many players essentially not being able to hold down the forward spot because of reasons LVG wanted. Sometimes even deduction on the matter after the fact leaves me scratching my head about it.
His form this season has definitely been much much better than the first six months of last season, it is undeniable. Hell even the second half of the seasons by the comments in here you'd even logically have to draw a conclusion that he was much much better in the second half of the season. (Since he was so ghastly in the first six months). But still, people can't really take their foot off the throat on this issue. They're happy to turn around and say "What? Me? Being silly about it?" and get all personal over defending the position. Which is where most flares on the discussion end up setting the thread ablaze.
Imagine the directive of a forward being "stand up front between the two CB's, have as few touches as possible, get on the end of chances" and having to carry it out. No wonder Welbeck and co. upped stick and everyone eventually ended up leaving. Nightmarish stuff really.
The RedCafe rating system is not a credible system for measuring anything. It is merely a gimmick.
Even if he scores a goal we'll have posters say "but he's not KDB". It's hopeless. The fans have turned against Rooney because he seems like an appropriate scapegoat. Pogba has a bad game? Rooney's fault. Mikhi played poor? Rooney's fault.
I won't say there are some sensible critics of him (as there should be) because there are. The vast majority, however, have convinced themselves that Rooney is some sort of hindrance. I'm labelled as being a staunch Rooney lover on here even though after the Southampton game I wanted Mikhi to start ahead of him (but now I think Rooney deserves his place)
"one random guy" thanks for the passive aggressive shoutout @Perrick Dubois
thanks for the passive aggressive shoutout @Perrick DuboisYes, well all one can do is ignore it and continue on with their own convictions I guess. It won't stop the general sentiment that having him and him playing well is important for us on the whole going forward.
We're at a very important point in the season where winning this game going into the Leicester game next weekend will put us in an important high position. A loss going into the Leicester game could be dicey.
You do realise how biased the rating system is? Fellaini has to be in top 5 IMO, Ibra was rated higher than Rooney after the City game and so on..
Edit: Worse still, Rooney was even criticized during our 3-3 draw with Newcastle!
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you can't be serious? he can't even control a 10 yard pass never mind link our midfield with the attack. He's done and there is nothing wrong with that. He has served United for more than ten years and was one of the best during that time.
Strongly disagree. I think it is far more credible than "productivity" stats where 2 players get an "e" point for one player misfiring a shot into another idol teammate which deflects into the goal, but the player who dribbles past half a team and passes it to the first player "gets" nothing.
In his last 6-8 seasons particularly Paul Scholes was one of the best players I've ever seen; his "productivity" would have had him sold for someone like Nolan.
Having a few thousand fans who watch the majority of games from start to finish and rate the players accordingly in my view rarely creates ratings that are far from reality. For all the crap "Caftards" get as a generalisation we have a very good community of learned and intelligent fans who regularly put their opinions across intelligently and with sound argument.
Rooney hasn't played well this season and i think any true neutral not knowing his name would have him down as "generally between very poor and poor but with moments of very good. Overall mediocre."
Somewhere between 5.5 and 6 out of 10 is where he is and where he deserves to be.
It's a very good indicator. Fellaini is rated 7th best and just behind DDG. Him being "hated" doesn't really fit the narrative of him being rated as our best none defender after Ibrahimovich.
An honest question if you believe the ratings are fair- Who do you think was better in City game- Ibra or Rooney?
How do I see how I've rated all the players in 1 screen?
You can check your own ratings per match, if you go to Match Day section, select a match, then on right click on View Full Results under Player Ratings.
Being a very keen and proven statistician Mrs. S, what is your take on the ratings system? My position is that it is inherently flawed as a credible metric due to the non-linear nature of an arbitrary baseline score. 5/10 could be another users 7/10 and so on and so on. There are also many who completely abuse the system giving their most disliked players straight 1's every game without ever deviating.
Another important post I'm guessing because you have ran out of corridors to take so now attacking the poster...I'm going to ignore any of your posts before it gets personal if it hasn't already for you
the earnest voices of reason peddling the tragedy of Rooney the martyr. The RedCafe rating system is a gimmick? Who do we trust then, the tabloids giving him 8/10 against Iceland? How about that zero dispossession stat in the Charity Shield? Rooney hasn't come close to the ridicule and harsh treatment someone like Fellaini has endured in his time here, but this season he has played at a decent level and guess what...nobody is having a go at him
there were people on here after the Europa game gloating and laughing after a defeat due to him not being in the side, but beg and plead for a fair hearing when the ball bounces off him when the likes of Hull and Bournemouth dare to press him
But its only within these cyberwalls of RedCafe that this feeling exists towards him isn't it? Oh no, its not. His decision to play for England 2 more years was met with a collective groan, Shilton and Shearer urged him to retire. Carragher said he was poor in the derby and is under threat in the United side. I guess they are members on RedCafe aswell
there were people on here after the Europa game gloating and laughing after a defeat due to him not being in the side, but beg and plead for a fair hearing when the ball bounces off him when the likes of Hull and Bournemouth dare to press him
But its only within these cyberwalls of RedCafe that this feeling exists towards him isn't it? Oh no, its not. His decision to play for England 2 more years was met with a collective groan, Shilton and Shearer urged him to retire. Carragher said he was poor in the derby and is under threat in the United side. I guess they are members on RedCafe aswell
Don't care much about them, with your reasoning being as good as anything. Don't check what the consensus of the players is. Header with the top/bottom and player of the match is enough for me. I often disagree with the results of those too, though.
I think Ibra was worse in his overall play but I can understand why he was rated higher. He scored our only goal with a fantastic finish, from our only real opportunity.
However both were quite rightly rated pretty low with Rooney at 5.4 and Ibra at 5.9. The difference was probably his excellent finish for the goal, without this I imagine both would be somewhere between 5 and 5.5. Rashford as a comparison for a lively 45 mins got 6.5 which again I'd say is about right.
Also it isn't about every rating for every game. It's about a weighted average as the season goes on. An arguably harshly rated performance like City is balanced out - his performance against Leicester for example was as bad a performance as I've seen and he still got a 4.3, compare that to Lingard getting 3.1 against City for an equally poor (but less lengthy) performance.
Over the course of the season it'll take a more unbiased shape, for instance Martial has been rated sympathetically overall thus far but that's already starting to balance out.
Yes, that is fair, puts into scope the disparity of opinions surrounding each player as well. That is only natural in an open debate.
That I know, I was asking if I could see the average ratings given by me for every player in one screen.
@Varun , something like this seems the best we can have: https://www.redcafe.net/players/2016-17/all
Pretty fair and I agree with you on that. But, if stats are enough to get you higher ratings, which basically means more praise- Why has rooney been getting this sort of abuse despite getting goals and assists.
Let's be fair, this thread is basically an extension of whether Rooney will be regarded as a Utd legend or not. Those who strong believe in it will defend him, those who don't believe will criticize him, and then the few rare ones who believe he is a legend but won't be remembered like some of the other legends like Giggs, Scholes and maybe even Rio, Vidic, Neville are the ones who have been pretty fair in his assessment.
P.S. I do agree I have been biased and am more than willing to see him on the bench should there be a better alternative, but I would back him till he wears the United shirt
Average rating of 5.6, "one of our best players so far"
Precisely what I was looking for, thanks.
Interesting to see how my ratings for Ibra and Rooney are so different from caf. I have both at 6.3, Caf has Ibra at 6.9 and Rooney at 5.6. Unfortunately, its not very representative as I forgot to do the ratings for the first match or 2 iirc.
I don't think stats are enough to get you a higher rating necessarily, but game changing moments are. Rooney against Hull wasn't very good, but his moment of magic took him from a "mid 5" performance to a 6.3 (likewise Ibra vs City).
I think most balanced people agree Rooney hasn't been awful, but he hasn't been close to good enough so far. However the only attacker I'd say overall that has been good is Ibrahimovich. This is a problem we've had for years though and I can't help but think Rooney is a part of it.
I don't think he should be dropped just because, but I think we need to give a few different formations and selections a try to find one that works. That will mean Rooney sitting out half a dozen games to see if our cohesion improves.
Personally I think Rooney provides much better balance from the right, with a more technically gifted player through the middle (Mata/Mikh). This is most people's biggest gripe - has Mata had 10 games as a number 10 to build a good partnership with our strikers and midfielders? No. Will Mikhitaryan or Pogba be given this chance? It's impossible without shifting Rooney which looks unlikely.
Of course we can argue that Rooney's stats mean he should play and if we were winning titles and playing the Football we all want to see then I'd completely agree. However he's getting decent stats in a team that everyone agrees needs to hugely improve and has done for 3 years. Maybe part of that improvement is trusting that someone else in the position of the pitch that always gets the highest productivity would be equally as effective.
We talk about Rooney's stats, but what about Mata's stats as a number 10 for Chelsea, or Pogba's further up the pitch and in a different formation at Juve, or Mikhitaryan's stats as a creative hub for Dortmund (often cutting inside to occupy a central position)? Of course they can't replicate these if Rooney is taking up their natural positions.
The one thing I do know is Rooney doesn't fit the "type" of creative force I see in other good teams. I look at Ozil, De Bruyne, Coutinho, Silva, Erikson, Oscar and in terms of technical ability Rooney stands out like a sore thumb.
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Personally I'll be glad he's back in the team. No, he's not what he was, but he's a fighter who more often than not plays to the final whistle, as he did against Hull with that cross for Rashford.
Rooney is the greatest example of just how low our standards have slipped since Fergie retired. He's not even close to being good enough anymore and yet still some people are content with him.
He wouldn't get in West Hams team.
He wouldn't get in West Hams team.
To be fair, WHU are amazing.
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