Sayros
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He's back from injury, I couldn't watch the whole game but it seems he's not in game shape yet.
"The battle between Marcus Rashford and Antony Martial has been great to follow," Giggs told Sky Sports.He is playing out of position. He isn't a left winger. Has to play centrally closer to goal where he can link up with Mata and Lukaku. Our build up play from the back as a team is too slow and Martial is one of those who are affected.
Martial himself said his best position is striker. All his coaches at Monaco and Lyon said the same. He plays as a striker but slightly drifts to the left hand side. Martial must operate in and around the box closer to the goal and then you'll see how good he really is. That small bit of link up with Mata shows what he can do more centrally. All his best moments are in between the lines. Not from a standing start on the touchline with 3 defenders around him. Its never going to work. There's no doubt Mourinho is not getting the best from him."The battle between Marcus Rashford and Antony Martial has been great to follow," Giggs told Sky Sports.
"I could definitely see them in the same team, with Marcus being more of a natural centre-forward whereas Martial is more of a left-sided forward but can also play centrally."
This is what Giggs said. It was for him that martial was bought for & only one of very few people who know that he is a left sided forward/ central forward. His ability to play as a winger has convinced people that he is a permanent left winger.
People forgot that we bought depay to play LW and Martial at CF.
Everyone knows Martial is a LF. His off the ball movement and attacking work rate is just not that good."The battle between Marcus Rashford and Antony Martial has been great to follow," Giggs told Sky Sports.
"I could definitely see them in the same team, with Marcus being more of a natural centre-forward whereas Martial is more of a left-sided forward but can also play centrally."
This is what Giggs said. It was for him that martial was bought for & only one of very few people who know that he is a left sided forward/ central forward. His ability to play as a winger has convinced people that he is a permanent left winger.
People forgot that we bought depay to play LW and Martial at CF.
His off the ball movement is rubbish because he hadnt been played with a partner up front.Everyone knows Martial is a LF. His off the ball movement and attacking work rate is just not that good.
Is it? It could be about Lingard who did sweet FA all game or Mata who was the one that was subbed off. Martial at least showed some threat.
I feel sorry for the lad because what happened was Memphis was bought for left hand side & he flopped. Martial took over the left hand side for him the same time Rashford came & then all of a sudden everyone's forgotten that we bought him to be a striker.Martial himself said his best position is striker. All his coaches at Monaco and Lyon said the same. He plays as a striker but slightly drifts to the left hand side. Martial must operate in and around the box closer to the goal and then you'll see how good he really is. That small bit of link up with Mata shows what he can do more centrally. All his best moments are in between the lines. Not from a standing start on the touchline with 3 defenders around him. Its never going to work. There's no doubt Mourinho is not getting the best from him.
Jose would have taken Martial off if he was the main culprit.
That’s what I thought as well. Only Matic and Smalling (!) were good imo. Martial did some good things which created some opportunities and tried some crosses, but was invicible in parts. Certainly didn’t hide.Disproportionate criticism. He wasn't bad, he just wasn't great.
I don’t care who it’s about, the bit about hiding behind defenders is spot on. It was the main topic with the guy I was watching it with, every fecking time a midfielder got on the ball they looked up to static attackers standing next to or behind their marker.
If it comes down to Mourinho and Martial then Mourinho out every time. Martial is someone who can be here for the next 10 years and I don't want to lose this talent. He showed everyone what he can do in his first season and under a different manager who pritorises attacking play and plays positive football we'll see a different Martial I'm sure. I'm not going to judge any of our attacking stars like Pogba, Martial and Rashford under a defensive coach like Mourinho. Look at how Sterling was being ridiculed before Guardiola came and now look at the difference in his play. Martial is a long term project that we must be patient with because like you said 100% he'll outlast Mourinho.I feel sorry for the lad because what happened was Memphis was bought for left hand side & he flopped. Martial took over the left hand side for him the same time Rashford came & then all of a sudden everyone's forgotten that we bought him to be a striker.
I just hope he outlast's Jose's tenure because the manager has had some horrible sales. This one is only going to turn sour if we sell him to someone; anyone who plays him in his best position.
All this whilst fans talk some rubbish about Martial FC for simply not understanding his game, listening to the scout who scouted him for United, listening to the player himself.
FFS our players have always been standing like statues since SAF left. They didn't magically stop moving for Mourinho, you can see every thread after our poor games since last year, the constant point that was brought up by many was our lack of movement.I don’t care who it’s about, the bit about hiding behind defenders is spot on. It was the main topic with the guy I was watching it with, every fecking time a midfielder got on the ball they looked up to static attackers standing next to or behind their marker.
He definitely won't last the cull that Mourinho seems to be planning. He and Shaw will be the first ones out.If it comes down to Mourinho and Martial then Mourinho out every time. Martial is someone who can be here for the next 10 years and I don't want to lose this talent. He showed everyone what he can do in his first season and under a different manager who pritorises attacking play and plays positive football we'll see a different Martial I'm sure. I'm not going to judge any of our attacking stars like Pogba, Martial and Rashford under a defensive coach like Mourinho. Look at how Sterling was being ridiculed before Guardiola came and now look at the difference in his play. Martial is a long term project that we must be patient with because like you said 100% he'll outlast Mourinho.
Did I say they did? This isn’t just about Martial for what it’s worth so is perhaps best moved to another thread but why shouldn’t Mourinho bring attention to it? We as fans recognise it’s an issue and he’s now said as much. He’s made it clear that he’s spending time working on it on the training ground and he’s pissed off that it’s completely disregarded on a game.FFS our players have always been standing like statues since SAF left. They didn't magically stop moving for Mourinho, you can see every thread after our poor games since last year, the constant point that was brought up by many was our lack of movement.
I thought it was about Mata. He looked a bit subdued coming off. Mourinho didn't shake his hand or pat him on the back when he came off like he normally does. Seemed to purposely stand at the far end of his technical area. I don't think he was happy with his performance based on that, but I might be getting a bit too 'body language expert' about it.Is it? It could be about Lingard who did sweet FA all game or Mata who was the one that was subbed off. Martial at least showed some threat.
Basically he wants faster build-up play today, which didn't materialized.
The only benefit to it is that United is a slightly different club towards the likes of Chelsea & Real who can sell a player for almost no reason & for it to be okay. He cannot just sell Martial like that here & this is why he has chopped and changed Rashford & Martial because as projects - he only has time for one; if that. He was ofcourse planning for Perisic which is clearly a 'jose' player in comparison to Rashford & martial.He definitely won't last the cull that Mourinho seems to be planning. He and Shaw will be the first ones out.
If it was purely about him, he'd have been first subbed off rather than lasting 90 mins. All of the three behind Lukaku had a quiet game. If what Mourinho said is true about working on fast build up then that is great but disappointing it wasn't executed by anyone. Weather isn't an excuse.
You can see the touches stat here.Jose would have taken Martial off if he was the main culprit.
I'd be interested to see his touches this game, as I thought he was on the ball quite a lot. Don't really get the "hiding" criticism he's getting here.
Who knows if he has spent enough time in the training ground? We almost always get to hear the one side only and going by Mourinho's behaviour the last week I'm not prepared to believe him.Did I say they did? This isn’t just about Martial for what it’s worth so is perhaps best moved to another thread but why shouldn’t Mourinho bring attention to it? We as fans recognise it’s an issue and he’s now said as much. He’s made it clear that he’s spending time working on it on the training ground and he’s pissed off that it’s completely disregarded on a game.
When he played as #9 under LVG how many goals did he score? Stop this non-sense of being out of position, because he is not capable of holding the ball with his back to the goal. He makes the most threat by cutting inside from the left and this is where he will be, unless he moves to a different club with a different system. He lost his form because someone took his shirt no., he lost his form because he didn't start in his favourite position. The only valid excuse is when he didn't start. As long as you get the chance to play, run for the team.He is playing out of position. He isn't a left winger. Has to play centrally closer to goal where he can link up with Mata and Lukaku. Our build up play from the back as a team is too slow and Martial is one of those who are affected.
He was certainly not one of those that were hiding. Got involved centrally, playing one-two's, dropping deep to pick up the ball. If Mourinho does think that then it only further demonstrates how he treats players differently simply based on whether he fancies them or not for whatever reason.
This is 100% correct.Martial himself said his best position is striker. All his coaches at Monaco and Lyon said the same. He plays as a striker but slightly drifts to the left hand side. Martial must operate in and around the box closer to the goal and then you'll see how good he really is. That small bit of link up with Mata shows what he can do more centrally. All his best moments are in between the lines. Not from a standing start on the touchline with 3 defenders around him. Its never going to work. There's no doubt Mourinho is not getting the best from him.
It isn't nonsense when 3/4 of his managers regard him as a forward, he thinks of himself of as a forward and our scout to bring him to United regard him as a forward. There is this big habit of ours that seem to regard any guy who can half dribble should be made to cut in on his stronger foot ever since Ronaldo's rise at old trafford. Football isnt that simple & neither Rashford nor Martial are going to be a Ronaldo type player who plays off the wings & ever have more than 2 games or 3 in a row where they can be consistent when playing like that.When he played as #9 under LVG how many goals did he score? Stop this non-sense of being out of position, because he is not capable of holding the ball with his back to the goal. He makes the most threat by cutting inside from the left and this is where he will be, unless he moves to a different club with a different system. He lost his form because someone took his shirt no., he lost his form because he didn't start in his favourite position. The only valid excuse is when he didn't start. As long as you get the chance to play, run for the team.
I played football from the ages of 7 - 16/17 and no on this entire green earth ever told me to move to find space. It should literally be the very basic trait of any footballer any where on the planet. Pass and fecking move. But our players don't seem to know this. It begs the question, how are they professionals? Basic competences, skills and experience are required for ANY job but this place makes it sound like our players are babies and have to be taught every skill in the playbook.Did I say they did? This isn’t just about Martial for what it’s worth so is perhaps best moved to another thread but why shouldn’t Mourinho bring attention to it? We as fans recognise it’s an issue and he’s now said as much. He’s made it clear that he’s spending time working on it on the training ground and he’s pissed off that it’s completely disregarded on a game.
Fully agree. Was very surprised to see the reactions from others, he tried to do something positive every time he got on the ball, he was just starved of it and also starved of players on his wavelengthSome harsh criticism here. I thought he was decent and his natural link with Lukaku is one of the highlights of our often poor attacking play.