Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

NotThatSoph said:
The UK has stricter rules than most other nations on punishing viewpoints, so she'll be pretty likely to get judicial punishent even if no victims can be located (if they exist). Alex Davies got sentenced to 8.5 years for membership in National Action, and is I believe just one out of about 20 convicted people from that single group. While they as a group actually did some stuff, like stockpiling weapons and going on marches that turned violent, I'm pretty certain most of them were convicted for membership rather than any specific action or incident.
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I fully agree with you, that the UK should take her back and prosecute her. Not doing so violates core values of western societies and exacerbates the problem of a lack of justice for the victims of ISIS. Its also a slippery slope for further infringements of civil rights. Additionally forcing foreign counties, who are already struggling, to deal with these people doesn't sit well with me either. Overall there are many reasons to be angry about the UK government.

I don't know UK laws in this regard, but what you are describing highlights one of my concerns. She might be prosecuted and go to jail, but the local victims won't be part of this process.
 
Raven said:
So you're okay with Britain operating like a 3rd world country?

Also, this is not loose documentation, this is actively stripping her of her citizenship, pretty big difference.
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I have posted about 20 times in this very thread that i'm in favour of bringing her back and putting her on trial (and the same for all other western feckwits that went there).

21 times now.

However not because of her. She doesn't deserve shit anymore. She went out of her way to support genocide. I don't care what happens to here. It's the countries and communities now saddled with these feckwits that deserve better than us acting like we have nothing to do with it.
 
shamans said:
You either know that's not what I said or that's all you could understand from that post which is sad either way.

What makes me even sadder is the amount of people from the Muslim community in the UK that are so tolerant and "naive" about this whole Shamima Begum. It doesn't surprise me. UK has some some of the most extremist mindset Muslims I've met. Total contrast from North American Muslim immigrants.

This girl was getting off to beheading videos, unapologetic about the Manchester bombings and rape of yazidi women. You don't just stumble into a terrorist org like that.

She was not kidnapped. She went voluntary. Your comparisons of grooming for sex holds no value here
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Congratulations, you're a consistently shocking poster, regardless of topic. It's exciting to finally have someone on my ignore list.
 
Where is jihad jack nowadays?

I know the UK revoked his citizenship too. I can't find anything on him, the only stuff is from 2020-ish. Seems like he's linked to Canada.
 
Abizzz said:
Literally every prison is filled with people who were brought into a life of crime by older people from a young age. How come this terrorist is the one we should make an exception for?

(And yes she went there to terrorize the population with the organization that she joined)
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Exactly. Almost every terrorist got radicalized or brainwashed at a young age and they all get punished and thrown out of the society for the acts they have committed. Why is this case being treated differently?
 
Moby said:
Exactly. Almost every terrorist got radicalized or brainwashed at a young age and they all get punished and thrown out of the society for the acts they have committed. Why is this case being treated differently?
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Is it? Almost every time a young terrorist or terrorist sympathizer is in the media spotlight there's a lot of focus on what lead up to it and how it happened: social circles, trips abroad, Internet activity, etc. After Philip Manshaug murdered his adoptive sister and attacked a mosque in an attempt to start a race war there were endless talk and written articles about his life. His changing personality, reaction from his friends, both during and after the fact, his social isolation, his Internet activity.

Manshaug got a trial and is in prison now. He is still a Norwegian citizen. We've also had several so-called "IS brides", as far as I know they're still Norwegian citizens.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
No he just sort of disappeared and there's nothing on him it seems.
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That's odd. You'd think he'd have surfaced or we would know where he is. He was a headline figure for a long time.

For some reason I thought I remembered reports that he was killed when we/the US dropped bombs on a target during the fighting.

EDIT: I'm thinking of his mate John :lol: a quick Google says Jack was being detained for 18 months in 2019. I'd be surprised if he's still alive to be honest. Either that or he's turned informant/working undercover as a mole somewhere.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
Where is jihad jack nowadays?

I know the UK revoked his citizenship too. I can't find anything on him, the only stuff is from 2020-ish. Seems like he's linked to Canada.
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He's still in prison in Syria, as far as I can see. Canada doesn't want him, although he happens to have Canadian citizenship too.
 
Carolina Red said:
I can poll several classrooms full of them to see if they think joining ISIS is a good idea if you want.

Edit: currently at a 100% hit rate on "she's an idiot, don't let her back in" among all 15 year olds polled
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Yes, because no 15 year old would like to their teacher about what they really think.
 
The Corinthian said:
Yes, because no 15 year old would like to their teacher about what they really think.
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I've now asked 4 classes, only 1 of them mine. Of that group, only 1 student has said anything other than "she's an idiot, don't send her back" and that person said "okay, I can see how a 15 year old could do that, even if I wouldn't... but they'd have to be the dumbest person in the school".

Maybe you should rethink your opinion of 15 year olds.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Is it? Almost every time a young terrorist or terrorist sympathizer is in the media spotlight there's a lot of focus on what lead up to it and how it happened: social circles, trips abroad, Internet activity, etc. After Philip Manshaug murdered his adoptive sister and attacked a mosque in an attempt to start a race war there were endless talk and written articles about his life. His changing personality, reaction from his friends, both during and after the fact, his social isolation, his Internet activity.

Manshaug got a trial and is in prison now. He is still a Norwegian citizen. We've also had several so-called "IS brides", as far as I know they're still Norwegian citizens.
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I doubt there is many people who joined ISIS who has more pr. than Shamina. Plenty of articles of how she was led astray and tv inputs about it. I agree though, she should have stayed a UK citizen, i'm not sure whether it's the case that she's joined a death cult abroad rather than join at home that's made the difference.
 
Carolina Red said:
I can poll several classrooms full of them to see if they think joining ISIS is a good idea if you want.

Edit: currently at a 100% hit rate on "she's an idiot, don't let her back in" among all 15 year olds polled
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There is doing stupid things when you are 15 and then there is joining a world wide famous terrorist organisation which is something you could hardly miss in the UK.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/31/shamima-begum-is-a-villain-not-a-victim/
 
shamans said:
You either know that's not what I said or that's all you could understand from that post which is sad either way.

What makes me even sadder is the amount of people from the Muslim community in the UK that are so tolerant and "naive" about this whole Shamima Begum. It doesn't surprise me. UK has some some of the most extremist mindset Muslims I've met. Total contrast from North American Muslim immigrants.

This girl was getting off to beheading videos, unapologetic about the Manchester bombings and rape of yazidi women. You don't just stumble into a terrorist org like that.

She was not kidnapped. She went voluntary. Your comparisons of grooming for sex holds no value here
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You are surely aware that this is the point of grooming gangs!?! Make the minor dependant on you, build an unhealthy relationship with them, so when you ask them to go to X or Y play they do so ‘voluntary’ as you say.

If she’d been groomed by a teacher and they ran off to France, police forces in UK and France would be working to return them, prosecute him and rescue her.

The only difference here is context, the type of context being quite obvious.
 
P-Ro said:
Being a victim of rape in your example and joining ISIS in Shamima's case?
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I’d offer the example where a white male who joined a white nationalist terror group was (originally) sentenced to ‘reading the classics’, then later given a prison sentence. At no point was it suggested that he have his citizenship revoked.

Three guesses to the difference between that white male in his twenties, and Begum, who was Groomed as a minor.

I’d also highlight the children that she’s lost, I believe two of whom were conceived via statutory rape…or doesn’t that count for her?
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Whilst wanting to commit acts of terror against the UK…
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I really don't even know where you are getting at here. I don't support the decision to revoke her citizenship but you are making some really poor comparisons to justify your view that this has been done because the government is racist.
 
There are plenty of Muslims in the UK each year charged with terrorism offenses. This might come as a huge surprise to you @Jericholyte2 but they don't get made stateless for being convicted of these crimes.
 
P-Ro said:
I really don't even know where you are getting at here. I don't support the decision to revoke her citizenship but you are making some really poor comparisons to justify your view that this has been done because the government is racist.
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Carolina Red said:
So the difference is he was in the UK while Begum was in Syria.

Or are you thinking of another difference?
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Case 1:

- 15 year old, member of an ethnic minority
- Groomed by a gang whilst a minor
- Is groomed to the point where she is convinced to go to Syria and support ISIS
- Is raped by her groomers and loses several children
- Is then punished further for her acts AS A MINOR by having her citizenship revoked

Case 2:
- 22yr old white male
- Joins a far right white nationalist terror group
- Plots acts of terror against UK
- Was originally sentenced to ‘read classic literature’ with a suspended sentence
- Later given a prison sentence
- Never had removal of citizenship considered

This is a poor example to suggest the government is inherently racist in what way?
 
P-Ro said:
There are plenty of Muslims in the UK each year charged with terrorism offenses. This might come as a huge surprise to you @Jericholyte2 but they don't get made stateless for being convicted of these crimes.
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Indeed, and they’re never scapegoated at all by the government. Never! Not once!

I still find it staggering that people believe that a 15yr old who was groomed and raped also deserves to live the rest of her life stateless.
 
Carolina Red said:
I've now asked 4 classes, only 1 of them mine. Of that group, only 1 student has said anything other than "she's an idiot, don't send her back" and that person said "okay, I can see how a 15 year old could do that, even if I wouldn't... but they'd have to be the dumbest person in the school".

Maybe you should rethink your opinion of 15 year olds.
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Dude, youre totally missing the point here. You asking as a teacher is going to garner a certain response. Now I’m not saying every 15 year old wants to secretly join ISIS, but what 15 year olds think and feel in their closed friendship groups can be different to what they relay to a person in authority.
 
hobbers said:
Wasn't Jihadi Jack stripped of his citizenship same as Begum? But he's white.

So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
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He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2
 
Jericholyte2 said:
You are surely aware that this is the point of grooming gangs!?! Make the minor dependant on you, build an unhealthy relationship with them, so when you ask them to go to X or Y play they do so ‘voluntary’ as you say.

If she’d been groomed by a teacher and they ran off to France, police forces in UK and France would be working to return them, prosecute him and rescue her.

The only difference here is context, the type of context being quite obvious.
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Groomed by a teacher.

Not Groomed by freaking abu bakr al baghdadi!
 
Carolina Red said:
I've now asked 4 classes, only 1 of them mine. Of that group, only 1 student has said anything other than "she's an idiot, don't send her back" and that person said "okay, I can see how a 15 year old could do that, even if I wouldn't... but they'd have to be the dumbest person in the school".

Maybe you should rethink your opinion of 15 year olds.
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And the winner of the DHOTYA 2022 goes to….
 
hobbers said:
Wasn't Jihadi Jack stripped of his citizenship same as Begum? But he's white.

So it maybe seems like you're more likely to be stripped of your citizenship if you leave the country to join terrorist death cults based abroad.
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P-Ro said:
He looks a bit brown though right @Jericholyte2
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Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
 
Pexbo said:
And the winner of the DHOTYA 2022 goes to….
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And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...

Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day. :eek:
 
NotThatSoph said:
Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
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Were the cited lawyers wrong?

Is she entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship?
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.

Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make efforts to activate and retain it.

So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47310206
 
NotThatSoph said:
Jack Letts had dual citizenship Shamina Begum doesn't. Not even close to comparable.
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The poster was saying the revoking of British citizenship is racist and justified his belief by comparing it to the non revocation of citizenship for white supremacists in the UK. It's a far better example to the one that he gave when you consider that they both travelled to Syria to join ISIS and now can't leave the country as no one wants to take them back.
 
Carolina Red said:
And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...

Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day. :eek:
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Are you asking your students if a 15 year old knows what their doing or about the idea of stripping a person off their citizenship?
 
shamans said:
She was not kidnapped. She went voluntary. Your comparisons of grooming for sex holds no value here
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was she not smuggled into syria by canadian intel agents working with the knowledge of british intel either immediately or immediately after the fact? our intel services are apparently in the child trafficking business now.
 
Carolina Red said:
And the winner of "I don't like what he said so I'm gonna act like it didn't happen" 2022 goes to...

Thursday's a school day in this country, Pexbo. I'm a social studies teacher. Current events is literally something we talk about every day. :eek:
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Sure Jan
 
i can see why it might be difficult to let her back in. how do you try her? you were party to smuggling her into syria in the first instance and witholding that fact from other law enforcement agencies. could easily become a trial of the british state's role in other such activities. though it would likely be a closed trial with national security cited.
 
maniak said:
Are you asking your students if a 15 year old knows what their doing or about the idea of stripping a person off their citizenship?
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Both.

They, by overwhelming majority, think she should have known better than to join ISIS and think that the UK should not let her back in.
 
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