Westminster Politics

[Sweet Square]

He's only joined for the seat and is standing down around the GE though.

Labour is almost word for word copying the Cameron/May Tory party on how it talks about the economy - magic money tree, household budget = national budget, etc.

The current Shadow Chancellor is someone who not only fully agree with David Cameron on austerity but wanted to go further. And now they are openly celebrating a MP has consistently voted to implement austerity. Tbh a lot of bad signs about what a incoming Labour government will do in office.

I also imagine him standing down in the GE means he has got a consulting job lined up with a Starmer government.

Can I ask people here what is your opinion about NHS doctors striking?

Imo doctors should have the ability to go on strike. Striking should be a fundamental basic right.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Oh look. Positive news about Labour. Time for Sweet Square to do his usual thing.

I don't know about you Pidge, but Tory seamlessly blends into Labour feels like a net loss.

 

[Habs]

Can I ask people here what is your opinion about NHS doctors striking?

What’s happened to the NHS over the last 15 years (or pretty much any public service) is a scandal.

NHS has been finished since Covid really, and things are only going to get worse, much worse is my feeling. The government have done an amazing job alongside the media to give the impression that doctors (particularly GP’s) are absolutely loaded, when in fact they get paid a fraction of what their counterparts in USA, Canada and Australia get paid.

There’s been a shortage of GP’s since 2015, and this has continued despite promises to increase numbers. You know what’s happening now? The government are effectively replacing GP’s with PA’s and ANP’s (non doctors). They’ve reduced the funding for primary care significantly over the past few years, hence why so many surgeries are closing as its not feasible to continue. However, they have created a pot of money that can only be used for additional staff (ARRS scheme) but can’t be used to employ doctors- hence surgeries then can’t afford GP’s but can employ other staff as they are effectively ‘free’ to them.

The pay is shocking for the amount of training, responsibility and workload doctors have. Most doctors now come out with £100k+ of debt, and get paid £14-15 pounds an hour in the first 2 years. This increases to £25-28 an hour when they are 4-8 years in. Just to be clear, they are named junior doctors but they work as doctors with all the responsibility.

The media and some public keep banging on about how great consultant pay is or the amazing pension- but is it really? Most consultants now start on a wage of £85k (can take 8-10 years to get here) and then pension scheme is significantly worse than older iterations of it. Also why does a pension matter when you’re getting screwed for almost all of your working life.

Now we know the pay is shit, but you know what’s worse? The actual work conditions. Honestly the stories you and what you come across is a disgrace for a country like the UK.

Pretty much everyone I know is planning on leaving the profession or going abroad. It’s actually scary how many have left and will leave soon.

 

[FireballXL5]

I don't know what to say about the UK anymore.

Home Office to detain asylum seekers across UK in shock Rwanda operation

Exclusive: Operation comes weeks earlier than expected and is thought to have been timed to coincide with local elections

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...m-seekers-across-uk-in-shock-rwanda-operation

 

[TwoSheds]

I don't know what to say about the UK anymore.

Home Office to detain asylum seekers across UK in shock Rwanda operation

Exclusive: Operation comes weeks earlier than expected and is thought to have been timed to coincide with local elections

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...m-seekers-across-uk-in-shock-rwanda-operation

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Can I ask people here what is your opinion about NHS doctors striking?

I have been waiting since the beginning of September for an appointment at the clinic for my hip.

So right now, I'd like to see them all ridden down with horses like they did my uncle over pit closures.

( Not really )

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I have zero respect for MPs defecting between the two biggest parties. They obviously believe in absolutely feck all.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

What’s happened to the NHS over the last 15 years (or pretty much any public service) is a scandal.

NHS has been finished since Covid really, and things are only going to get worse, much worse is my feeling. The government have done an amazing job alongside the media to give the impression that doctors (particularly GP’s) are absolutely loaded, when in fact they get paid a fraction of what their counterparts in USA, Canada and Australia get paid.

There’s been a shortage of GP’s since 2015, and this has continued despite promises to increase numbers. You know what’s happening now? The government are effectively replacing GP’s with PA’s and ANP’s (non doctors). They’ve reduced the funding for primary care significantly over the past few years, hence why so many surgeries are closing as its not feasible to continue. However, they have created a pot of money that can only be used for additional staff (ARRS scheme) but can’t be used to employ doctors- hence surgeries then can’t afford GP’s but can employ other staff as they are effectively ‘free’ to them.

The pay is shocking for the amount of training, responsibility and workload doctors have. Most doctors now come out with £100k+ of debt, and get paid £14-15 pounds an hour in the first 2 years. This increases to £25-28 an hour when they are 4-8 years in. Just to be clear, they are named junior doctors but they work as doctors with all the responsibility.

The media and some public keep banging on about how great consultant pay is or the amazing pension- but is it really? Most consultants now start on a wage of £85k (can take 8-10 years to get here) and then pension scheme is significantly worse than older iterations of it. Also why does a pension matter when you’re getting screwed for almost all of your working life.

Now we know the pay is shit, but you know what’s worse? The actual work conditions. Honestly the stories you and what you come across is a disgrace for a country like the UK.

Pretty much everyone I know is planning on leaving the profession or going abroad. It’s actually scary how many have left and will leave soon.

It’s utterly mental at how easy this is to change.

On Day 1 of Labour they can simply;

- Change the designations. Call them ‘Doctors’ and ‘Senior Doctors’. With internal grades against each as they do across the civil service. (Better naming and grading suggestions from better minds than mine)
- Put a chart up showing pay scale of doctors across similar countries.
- Put their pay up as a one time show of goodwill. Very pointedly show that Tories have deliberately taken advantage of doctors for 14 years and Labour are putting them at the forefront of an NHS rebuild.
- Tie future pay rises to NHS and economic performance.
- Offer resettlement bonuses for Uk doctors overseas.
- Make it abundantly clear that if we don’t do this, the only option is to import a workforce from overseas (to mitigate the gammon voices about Labour caving to unions etc).

Day 1. Just do it. Not for politics but for the health of the country. If the Tories get back in, they can’t cut those pay restorations.

It’s such an easy win.

 

[Dobba]

You know how the whip system works, right?

'He's not evil, he's just an unprincipled coward'

 

[Giggsyking]

Personally… absolutely, and support their right and motivation to strike.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Giggsyking]

Imo doctors should have the ability to go on strike. Striking should be a fundamental basic right.

Well in Sweden we do not have the right to go on strike. Nurses, physiotherapists, technicians, any health care worker have, but not doctors.

 

[Giggsyking]

paid a fraction of what their counterparts in USA, Canada and Australia get paid

Yes, two of my friends moved to Canada from the UK in the last 6 months. Both GPs.

 

[Giggsyking]

I have been waiting since the beginning of September for an appointment at the clinic for my hip.

So right now, I'd like to see them all ridden down with horses like they did my uncle over pit closures.

( Not really )

Sorry to hear that. Believe me it's the same waiting times in Sweden despite the smaller population.

 

[Giggsyking]

Honestly the stories you and what you come across is a disgrace for a country like the UK.

Pretty much everyone I know is planning on leaving the profession or going abroad. It’s actually scary how many have left and will leave soon.

Agree, it's really a disgrace, once one of the best health care systems collapsing like that. Yes as I mentioned two my friends already moved, and another one already planning to do the same.

 

[4bars]

Well in Sweden we do not have the right to go on strike. Nurses, physiotherapists, technicians, any health care worker have, but not doctors.

Oh wow. Then, if the doctors decides to go on an official strike what hsppens?

 

[Sweet Square]

Well in Sweden we do not have the right to go on strike. Nurses, physiotherapists, technicians, any health care worker have, but not doctors.

Oh cheers had no idea about this. I sort of get the logic of it but imo it’s essentially punishing workers for having a important job.

I think in the UK it’s illegal for the police to go on strike.

 

[Giggsyking]

Oh wow. Then, if the doctors decides to go on an official strike what hsppens?

They can't. The doctors union does not allow for public serving doctors to strike according to the collective agreement between the state and the union. If the doctors decides to go with it without the permission if the union, they need to then pay compensation for the damage and will not be receiving their salary.

Private sector doctors (limited sector) can strike without union permission (but why would they? most probably they have better financial deals).

 

[Giggsyking]

Oh cheers had no idea about this. I sort of get the logic of it but imo it’s essentially punishing workers for having a important job.

I think in the UK it’s illegal for the police to go on strike.

Yes. Agree

 

[4bars]

They can't. The doctors union does not allow for public serving doctors to strike according to the collective agreement between the state and the union. If the doctors decides to go with it without the permission if the union, they need to then pay compensation for the damage and will not be receiving their salary.

Private sector doctors (limited sector) can strike without union permission (but why would they? most probably they have better financial deals).

I understand the legality of it. But I wonder what power unions and the government would have if they would decide to strike. fire the doctors? lets see how it goes. Sure doctors with their salaries can go a couple of months without salaries. Health care can't go without doctors in days

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2vw51eggwqo

This is going to get tricky isn't it?

I mean, if it is as easy as new legislation equals sending people back to the UK. Then the UK should copy and paste the wording and I suspect France isn't going to be happy.

 

[berbatrick]

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[Jippy]

Imo doctors should have the ability to go on strike. Striking should be a fundamental basic right.

 

[The Corinthian]

Over 200k at today's London pro Palestine march. Lots of respect and solidarity given to the US university students (and teachers apparently) holding freedom up for the rest of us.

Along with the regular protest attendees like Corbyn you had Clare Daly, Irish MEP, giving both barrels to Biden and Sunak again. She's no shrinking violet. And Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neil.

Avi Shlaim was there also.

 

[4bars]

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13% are dead in the last 4 years and a half

 

[TwoSheds]

13% are dead in the last 4 years and a half

1.3m/14m isn't 13%, what am I missing?

 

[Pexbo]

1.3m/14m isn't 13%, what am I missing?

Wishful thinking

 

[4bars]

1.3m/14m isn't 13%, what am I missing?

Sorry. I thought it was 1.3 mil over 10 mil. Still, almost 10%

 

[TwoSheds]

Wishful thinking

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Speaking of strikes; college lecturers and professional service staff have been striking in Scotland for a few months due to threats of job cuts and the lack of any movement on pay deals (support staff haven't had a pay increase since 2021).

College management and the Education Minister seem to want to ignore that these workers are still on a salary that's three years old. It's got to the point where the unions have been forced to demand a meeting with the First Minister. The same FM who is resigning. So back to square one for those folk...

 

[hobbers]

Speaking of strikes; college lecturers and professional service staff have been striking in Scotland for a few months due to threats of job cuts and the lack of any movement on pay deals (support staff haven't had a pay increase since 2021).

College management and the Education Minister seem to want to ignore that these workers are still on a salary that's three years old. It's got to the point where the unions have been forced to demand a meeting with the First Minister. The same FM who is resigning. So back to square one for those folk...

At least Scotland's answer to Liz Truss will be gone in mere minutes, and probably taking half his MSPs down with him after ingeniously boxing his own party out of government.

 

[Drainy]

At least Scotland's answer to Liz Truss will be gone in mere minutes, and probably taking half his MSPs down with him after ingeniously boxing his own party out of government.

What's caused that?

 

[hobbers]

What's caused that?

He unceremoniously scrapped their deal with the Greens, which was what gave the SNP a slim majority.

And somehow this absolute clownfish thought that doing that and then walking into parliament and insulting everyone would make his party look stronger. But surprisingly it just triggered two confidence votes that he was guaranteed to lose.

 

[Drainy]

He unceremoniously scrapped their deal with the Greens, which was what gave the SNP a slim majority.

And somehow this absolute clownfish thought that doing that and then walking into parliament and insulting everyone would make his party look stronger. But surprisingly it just triggered two confidence votes that he was guaranteed to lose.

What caused him to scrap the deal?

 

[Jericholyte2]

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[hobbers]

What caused him to scrap the deal?

The Greens were suppose to be putting their ongoing commitment to the deal to a members vote. And this was maybe the SNP pushing them before they could jump.

But also the Green's are anti growth and anti business and a catastrophe in government, and that was creating a lot of tension within the SNP.

 

[groovyalbert]

The Greens were suppose to be putting their ongoing commitment to the deal to a members vote. And this was maybe the SNP pushing them before they could jump.

But also the Green's are anti growth and anti business and a catastrophe in government, and that was creating a lot of tension within the SNP.

Do you reckon this will pave the way for John Swinney's return?

 

[Berbasbullet]

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Fecking hell I didn’t need this today.

 

[hobbers]

Do you reckon this will pave the way for John Swinney's return?

If it does it wont be for very long. His record as education secretary is still radioactive.

Whoever it is will have to go back cap in hand begging to the greens to let them become FM, which rules out Kate Forbes. And if they dont support anyone then it'll force an election.

 

[Bwuk]

It’ll be Forbes.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Do you reckon this will pave the way for John Swinney's return?

Oh god I hope not.