I'm pretty sure we can all say that Welbeck was a failure. He never staked a claim to lead our line. Never good enough. Sorry. But, it's the truth.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I agree that for a serious attacking talent that you genuinely can see as having a place in your starting eleven, a loan to a poor team is not going to do much. You want your attacker to be involved in attacks not defending/being the only attacking outlet for a team.
I don't think he was a "failure". A failure is something like Zaha or Obertan. Welbeck was a key player in our matches against Madrid and is right now playing for Arsenal. Not a complete success but can't say it failed.
A success is never sold to a rival club whilst still young...unless you're Mourinho and you think you're better off without Mata.
Not playing much for Arsenal and I think he'll play even less this season. I think we can call it a failure.
34 games in an injury-hit season is not playing much?
Welbeck was a solid squad player who was often trusted to play in the biggest games by SAF. Just because LVG didn't fancy him doesn't mean he was a failure, there have been plenty of good players who LVG hasn't fancied much. Even now he doesn't seem to rate Smalling and Herrera as much as the majority on here.
Welbeck was a solid squad player who was often trusted to play in the biggest games by SAF. Just because LVG didn't fancy him doesn't mean he was a failure, there have been plenty of good players who LVG hasn't fancied much. Even now he doesn't seem to rate Smalling and Herrera as much as the majority on here.
Is that in all comeptitions or?
He wasnt a starter or sometimes was and sometimes wasnt. In any case he hasnt proven we were wrong to let him go and I see him in some mid table club in a year or 2.
What other good players LVG hasnt fancied much.
Also there's no proof LVG doesnt fancy Herrera and especially Smalling.
oh and Fergie trusted Cleverley in some big matches too.
After watching the first 60 minutes with Rooney up front it was fantastic to have a striker who has a good first touch, should have scored from the first chance but it was still a great first touch. Check the run he makes for the Lingard goal and you can see that there is potential to play up front. I think it's sad that we have been in no position to ease him in because he genuinely has star potential.
Yes it's in all competitions.
I didn't claim we were wrong to let him go and whether or not he was a starter is a irrelevant as I'm not trying to claim he's some sort of world class player, but he was a solid squad player for us and now he's a solid squad player for Arsenal. That's his role at a top club and he fills it well.
Herrera sat on the bench for half a season while we were clamouring for him to play and is seemingly back on the bench now that LVG has signed some of his own midfielders. There's less evidence for Smalling, but he does seem to rate Jones higher since he started just about every game he was fit last season and now being left out of the 'A' team on tour. I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.
Off the top of my head Gomez and Riquelme stand out, though I think there were more. He also preferred Young to the vastly more talented di Maria last season, while Valencia was an almost ever-present ahead of Rafael.
Welbeck was obviously a much more important player for us than Cleverly ever was.
I didn't claim we were wrong to let him go and whether or not he was a starter is a irrelevant as I'm not trying to claim he's some sort of world class player, but he was a solid squad player for us and now he's a solid squad player for Arsenal. That's his role at a top club and he fills it well.
Herrera sat on the bench for half a season while we were clamouring for him to play and is seemingly back on the bench now that LVG has signed some of his own midfielders. There's less evidence for Smalling, but he does seem to rate Jones higher since he started just about every game he was fit last season and now being left out of the 'A' team on tour. I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one.
Off the top of my head Gomez and Riquelme stand out, though I think there were more. He also preferred Young to the vastly more talented di Maria last season, while Valencia was an almost ever-present ahead of Rafael.
Welbeck was obviously a much more important player for us than Cleverly ever was.
Rafael
Rivaldo
Riquelme
Di Maria
Oh and Welbeck was preferred to Berbatov, Hernandez and even Rooney in some cases, so your ever so clever Cleverely point is moot
and for someone who moans a lot about moaning, you moan a lot about players who contributed to our success in the Fergie years
I didnt say they didnt contribute to our success did I?
Nor did I moan about those players. I just meant it doesnt mean much he trusted Welbeck in big games cause SAF was an expert in bringing out the most out of not very good teams sometimes. It was good then but ultimately it costed us until this day.
Dont know the story about Riquelme and Rivaldo but Rafael and ADM its the right choice it seems.
Well he preferred YOung over ADM cause of obvious reasons despite the fact how much ADM is talented. As for Herrera and Smalling yeah we have to wait and see not jump to conclusions.
As much as a I rate him, I don't think he's a generational kind talent.
Why would anyone care who's more accomplished at 20? Anyways Janu has way more talent than Muller.
His movement is really good but he had me worried after he squandered the first chance.
He's not. He'd already be in the side if he were, if we're being honest.
He'll do very well to become as good as Ozil, in my opinion.
It would be a stupid move to loan him out. He has the quality and potential and he just needs the necessary confidence and mentality to thrive. Loaning him out will be ruining him altogether.
Sorry, what?
I tend to agree. Young players of his ability should be nurtured (even he's constantly just being benched and plays in reserves, it is way better than loaning him out, which more or less is a write off and it would be a shame)
statements like this are why i tell everyone muller is one of the most underrated players in the game.
I think he'll be one of the best players of his age range. But like I've said before, I think he might have to move for that to transpire.
Thing with januzaj & why i alwaya said he was centrally better than a winger was that when our wingers/forwards cut in; our central forward must have ability to manoeuvre on to the sides that are not occupied.
More than RVP, i rekon he is moulding in to van basten =D
More than RVP, i rekon he is moulding in to van basten =D
Zidane at 20 was getting a transfer to Bordeux, and he was a generational player. Dinho had only earned a transfer to PSG and he was also a generational talent. Don't think that's the reason he's not, imo the generational talent we had was Morrison, the rest of the big talents all have world class potential, and some have ballon d'or potential.
Think he can easily be better than Ozil if used in his best position under the right set up. Personally I've never been all that impressed by the german if only due to the fact that although he's got all the tools needed to be a monster classic 10, he still has poor ball striking and generally is mediocre in front of goal.
He's technically on a whole different level. He also has a great football brain.
He's a very good player but he's the sort of player that's making the absolute most of his talent. Let's not lie to ourselves, there are just certain things a player like Muller will never be able to do with the ball. That's the sort of stuff the likes of Januzaj can do.
Yeah, one of the best, but I don't think he has it in him to be the very best. I.e don't see him as a Zidane or Dinho level talent.
That's quite different to what you first claimed, and still quite wrong.
you think Muller is technically on the same level as Januzaj?
Nope, that's me justifying why I think he's got more potential than Muller.
Muller actually has amazing technique, Januzaj has more tricks in his locker, but technique wise, Muller is one of the best around
Do I think they are so different I would call Januzaj "Way more talented", no I don't. It's not you justifying why you think that, you're clarifying why, there's a big difference, quit now, the road is downhill for you.
i think it's pretty funny that people were writing januzaj's obituary after the 2nd preseason game, and now one good cameo and everyone's a believer again.
unbelievably fickle. kids take time to mature and they will always have ups and downs, it would be nice if people can see that for what it is rather than jumping on him or anyone else after one subpar outting. no question about it, if he doesn't have the best cameo appearance against PSG we'll be back to where we were in this thread three days ago.
unbelievably fickle. kids take time to mature and they will always have ups and downs, it would be nice if people can see that for what it is rather than jumping on him or anyone else after one subpar outting. no question about it, if he doesn't have the best cameo appearance against PSG we'll be back to where we were in this thread three days ago.
No chance he's one of the best around. He's not even one of the best in the Bayern squad.
Not much of a difference in this case. I made a statement and to justify that statement I gave reasons why. That justification was just clarification on the matter at hand. Pretty much everything is tied together. How's the road downhill? I think if Januzaj fulfils his potential he'll be a superior player to what muller is now. Surely that can't be that much a controversial opinion. We're not talking some once in a generation player here, we're talking about Muller.
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He's beefed up. Think he needed that. Hopefully he'll get his chances and take them.
If Rooney gets injured, how can United score enough goals?
“You have seen Januzaj and in two weeks Chicharito or maybe I buy another striker. I have to evaluate always that process.”
Seems to have quite a bit of faith in Adnan upfront. Looked good there, hopefully he'll continue to impress.
“You have seen Januzaj and in two weeks Chicharito or maybe I buy another striker. I have to evaluate always that process.”
Seems to have quite a bit of faith in Adnan upfront. Looked good there, hopefully he'll continue to impress.
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Perhaps it's a bit risky not to go into market for another striker but there are not many options available I guess. Anyway I can't wait for Januzaj to get his chance there even if we don't look particularly world class on the paper. I hope he takes his chances there, needs to work on his composure and finishing. He's got good enough skill set to play there otherwise, good hold up play and great creativity and movement.. he could be used as a false nine I believe..
I'd be ecstatic if Adnan develops into a viable striking threat. He has the size, control, and finishing to do just that.
He was unlucky not to get on given how poor Rooney was and how knackered Memphis looked in the last 20 minutes.
If van Gaal wants a fast, strong and technical player in the number 10 role, I'd rather have Januzaj in there and Memphis playing LW with Young on the other flank. Would add a lot of strength and pace to our forward line. At lease that way Memphis can act as a wide forward with Januzaj holding up the ball instead of him. That way we have a 2nd goal threat inside the box and not just Rooney.
This might be LVG's man utd's schweinsteiger moment.
I think Moyes would deserve some credit for starting the process to be fair.
Moyes never played him as a striker though, did he?
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