That's a strawman. We are, and indeed have been for seven years, very far from being perfect in every game. No one expects that yet people keep getting challenged with this ridiculous line even while we only ever fight for top 4 year after year. And regarding your Fergie question: remember the static, slow motion zombie passing thread? People did question the quality of performances in the latter years of Fergie reign, and I think rightly so: the decline started there, we simply didn't do enough, weren't proactive enough in preserving our status as one of the best teams in the world, for whatever reason.
Nobody wants Arteta or Lampard to take over United so that's sort of a moot point. Lampard isn't rated by... anyone, really, at least on the Caf. Arteta has his backers, oddly enough, but not a lot of them. Rodgers doesn't really belong in this conversation as he manages a club with the fraction of the resources available to the manager of Chelsea or Manchester United. And no one really wants him either, though that's because of the Liverpool connection rather than anything else. Well, and maybe because of him being a right tosser with the envelope nonsense and whatnot.
I'm not even sure what you mean here. Van Gaal had a points-per-game record of 1.81, Mourinho's was 1.97. Solskjaer's right now is 1.9. He's right in the middle between the two. Or do you mean their big game records? Because Van Gaal's wasn't bad and Ole's certainly, ahem, regressed to the mean this season.
And I always felt it was slightly disingenuous to say that Ole had inherited a crumbling team that languished in 6th. It was a team that had finished second just six months before he took over, with 81 points. And after over €300m spent, after losing only one key player of that 2017/18 team (Lukaku), we still look unlikely to match that 81 point season. We're on course for 78 as of now - and that's still decent and I'd be happy enough with it come the end of the season. But let's not pretend it's somehow baffling and outlandish to have little faith in Solskjaer's ability to take this team to the next level. He's done an OK job so far, stabilised the club after the toxicity of Mourinho, and made one inspired signing in Bruno Fernandes. Our performances are still a bit rubbish more often than not, and almost invariably awful if Bruno isn't on the pitch.
So yeah, being critical and unsure about Ole doesn't, as you suggest, stem from extrapolating one bad result. Quite the opposite: it's the refusal to extrapolate from decent runs of results because we've seen quite a few false dawns before, from Juanfield through Mourinho's big unbeaten run and 4-0s in 2017 all the way to Solskjaer's almost perfect record as a caretaker. All through these false dawns we almost always looked like a disjointed side and eventually the results regressed to the performances, as the pessimists always fear. The optimists believe that it will all click, if only we sign a couple more good players. And I really hope they're right, I just can't really believe it. But I don't think, contrary to what this thread suggests, that somehow makes me a worse supporter.
My friend, we haven't even attained two consecutive years of Top 4 since Fergie left.
So please tell me, why are there complaints when it is looking like there are clear and actual signs of progress? That was the original question, and what I instead got from your contemporary was a wall of text complaining about such fatuous concepts of 'Top Reds' and him strangely framing himself to something akin to Julian Assange. I then responded in kind and asked him what he wanted from the team under Ole. He hasn't yet responded so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But irrespective, my original question was a pretty clear one with nary a hint of a straw within it, so please, do enlighten me with your response.
And re the threads that you mentioned, I do remember them, but if you actually read my post properly, I said I didn't see the caf tear itself apart back then like it has now. They didn't take over the caf for months and years at a time like the infamous Ole threads have. I certainly didn't see anyone opining openly whether it was time to sack Fergie and have thousands of responses in its attached poll.
Yes, we're unsuccessful and have been for a while, but the depths to which we have fell are much deeper than any quick fix solution will sort out. The rot was deep and it is still in the process of being fixed. We would have been much further along if Ole was able to bring Bruno in the summer of 2019 and if he was able to get at least two of his first choice targets this summer, but the reality is, we didn't and EVEN STILL (despite hundreds of posts to the contrary at the end of the summer) Ole and the team have managed to salvage the season and have us on a good keel. When the Sancho deal didn't happen, almost everyone to a tee was saying we wouldn't get Top 4. Most of them, I may add, were people who wanted Ole gone. Now those same people are now talking about it being a failure if he doesn't challenge for the title. Do you not see the inherent contradiction in their statements?
It's not a moot point because Ole has been perpetually compared to Lampard and Arteta. Rodgers likewise, has been in the job at a similar time and started from a similar base as Ole had done with a team that has won the title much more recently than Utd have. So it is a fair observation to make. I'm not sure why it's something that rankles you, but like I said to b28, you do you.
What I mean is the big game record. Though your perhaps mischievous remark of it regressing to the mean is perhaps a little misguided, considering Ole has beaten Leipzig and PSG this season and had more than just last season's big game results in his favour.
That 2nd place is perhaps the biggest misnomer of them all. The underlying metrics had us overperforming to a significant degree and in truth it was only the brilliance of DDG which kept us there. I mean sure, you can hold on to the 2nd place and what little memories of it you have, but from someone who went home and away that season, it was perhaps the most turgid "title race" I'd ever seen us involved in. Even the 4-0s in the early stages of that season flattered us, and I can barely remember a goal or two worth remembering from that run. And I go back to it, but LvG had less of a points difference between himself and 1st place than Jose did. And another thing is, the team we have now is not the team Jose had. Ole pretty much took a sledgehammer to that squad and built his team around those players that Jose either didn't rate,. didn't want, or actively wanted to sell. So again, it's a bit of a one-sided reading of the situation you have there. And irrespective of that 2nd place, the team had finished 6th the season before Ole's first season and if it wasn't for Ole and his caretaker stewardship, we'd have likely finished much, much worse than 6th.
Also, don't you think just putting the gross amount of transfer money spent is a bit disingenuous? I mean, at least 100m of that was from sales that he made with around 11 players being sold/let go and having only bought 6 players in to replace them from outside the club? He also didn't just lose one key player. He also lost Herrera who was the glue in that midfield during his initial caretaker run. There's also the fact that the players he let go were crucial parts of that squad which finished in that 2nd place that you were oh so impressed by and championing (I'm looking at you Fellaini, Young, Valencia, Smalling, Lukaku, Herrera, and arguably Sanchez). So, which is it, that team should be getting 4th as a matter of fact? (that despite Jose never getting Top 4 in consecutive seasons with said squad whose achievement was so good that you saw fit to say that Ole had just about met expectations) or did Ole do a good job in totally restructuring the team with a minimum of buys? Cos whichever way you look at it, Ole has done well: he bought well when he needed to, and he's made the most of the talents who were already at the club - something which Jose said was impossible for some of them.
He also had to do without his best midfielder in Pogba for 2 3rds of that season, as well as long injuries to Rashford and Martial. The instant those players all came back in to a settled team with Bruno, we actually looked a unit. Ole took a massive gamble with his outgoings and lack of incomings in 2019/20, but you can't say that it didn't come off. Bruno is a big reason why of course, but if we were as horrendously coached as some among your number would have us believe, there would be no way that Bruno would have thrived in the way he has. The truth quite simply is, Ole and the coaches had developed a system and identified that Bruno was the perfect fit for that system. So again, credit is due to above all the player, but also the management. The only shame is that he didn't come in at the start of that season. And the key thing for the future is to ensure that the squad building continues apace next season and beyond, and that Ole gets the RW, CB, DM and Striker that he needs over the course of the next two summer transfer windows.
The false dawns and decent runs followed by runs without a win haven't been there for the past 11 months and 33 league matches. It's more than just a flash in the pan. Which is again, where my (what you would term strawman) question of what exactly people want from this team is coming from, because if 3 league losses in the course of 30+ matches isn't enough for a young team that's growing, then seriously speaking, what is? Because quite simply, the metrics don't agree with you on almost every objective and subjective level that it will all somehow collapse upon itself again.
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