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I don't think it's anything to do with principle. It's really down to biology, if the bone is completely healed why shouldn't he go. If he's healthy then I'd prefer him to get a few competitive games under his belt.
There's much more to it than just the bone being healed though. He'll have lost muscle mass in that leg, so they need to build that back up, and do it properly, otherwise he's vulnerable to another break. Plus any imbalance picked up during his recovery needs to be corrected otherwise he'll be prone to muscle injuries elsewhere. There isn't a simple line you can draw between 'healed' and 'not healed'. It's about how ready you want him to be before he starts playing again.
Right but if all those boxes have been ticked, if the bone has healed and the muscle rebuilt why not play? What's the point in not playing IF healthy based on some kind of principle.
You're missing the point. There is no objective point where he's suddenly 'healthy'. It's subjective. One qualified medic might say he's ready one day, another might say he needs another couple of weeks before it's safe. My point is that Hodgson will inevitably be willing to risk Shaw much earlier than, say, Van Gaal. But if we're talking about what's in Shaw's best interests, he'd be better off erring towards a more cautious timescale, because missing one tournament so early in his career isn't going to hurt him but another injury now would massively feck him over.
If the medical people at United and England say he's fit then you go with their advice. That's what we employ them for.
And this season the tour is 2 games so there'll be less football for him.
This is what I mean. You seriously think their assessments are going to match up? I doubt it. England's medics will want to be able to tell Hodgson he can go. United's will be as cautious as possible, knowing the club has no particular reason to rush him back. So when he's in that subjective zone where he probably could go but he also could take a bit longer and reduce the risk of injury, they're unlikely to agree.
Isn't that just in China? It wouldn't surprise me though. I remember last year they were landing somewhere at 10pm and then training just to fit it in. If you compare it to the pre seasons of smaller clubs you realise how inadequate ours are.
Why do you doubt their assessments will match up? Its science not art. Take it back a step then, if just United's medics say he's fit why shouldn't he go? Can you imagine telling him that despite being physically ready he's not going because of "principle." What a wasted opportunity to get fit and take part in an international tournament it would be.
Yeah, we'll most likely have a game at OT too but still not much of a preseason.
Yeah its not enough for most players but especially for Shaw. If his first competitive game is beginning of next season that'll be 11 months out. During that period all he'd have had is a handful of slow, poor standard pre season games. Probably only one or two full games. There's no way he'll be anywhere near match fit for 2016/17.
Exactly. Can't believe any United fan thinks otherwise.
Do you have any knowledge at all of how long a leg break takes to recover from? He's due back next month and honestly I'd be surprised if he didn't play the last few games of our season as well as trading for months. If he's ready he's ready, I don't get how people can't understand that.Exactly. Can't believe any United fan thinks otherwise.
'He's missed a whole fecking season for us but sure, let's let him go and play three games in another dispiriting England campaign. Fingers crossed rushing him back doesn't feck up his entire career before it's even started, eh? After all, how else will he possibly get match fit?'
You've completely ignored the fact that the season when Shaw went to a tournament with England he turned up not fit enough for United and took a while to get going as a result. Whereas the season when Shaw didn't go to a tournament he used a personal trainer to get absolutely razor-edge fit and exploded into form straight away, played every game for us and was our second best player (after Smalling) right up until his injury.Read my original post. I'm not saying he shouldn't go, just that he shouldn't go if he's not managed to come back and play for United before the end of the season, and that it should be United's medical team whose opinion counts, not Hodgson and England's medics, who are inevitably biased towards the short-term advantages of having Shaw available in France.
Well fair enough I'm inclined to agree because we both know it's in his best interests not to be rushed back in any way. I'm not sure I agree about the Engkand medical team tho, they are not stupid and I don't think they will be looking short term. England has plenty of LB cover so they know there is no need to rush him back. I'm sure they have his best intentions at heart because they know he could be England left back for the next 10 years.
Pretty sure his injury was this season? In addition to him possibly being fit for the end of the season.Exactly. Can't believe any United fan thinks otherwise.
'He's missed a whole fecking season for us but sure, let's let him go and play three games in another dispiriting England campaign. Fingers crossed rushing him back doesn't feck up his entire career before it's even started, eh? After all, how else will he possibly get match fit?'
True, but let's see how he does if / when he comes back for United. No point taking him if he's still rusty. The Euros is not the place to be trying to build up match fitness.
Ok then.
How do you know his last tournament caused the following seasons injuries? On what medical basis are you claiming this.
There's this thing called training. I know you don't get to watch it on MUTV but it does actually happen. Quite a lot of it, during pre-season. Some might say it's a more useful tool for pre-season fitness than three or four disappointing England games.
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Shaw
I've banged on about this already but we've only got three pre season games. It's highly unlikely he'll get 90mins in all of them as everybody will need game time. On top of that LvG has said training will be poor due to the China humidity.
I assume there will be lots of closed door pre season games.
Can't say I recall that happening before. Even if we do who are the opposition? What's the standard?
Yep, that's what I'm hoping for. 20 minutes or so in the last game, just to get him out there in the action again so hopefully he can go into the pre-season in a good frame of mind.
Didn't Rooney play in one whilst the rest of the squad were in the far east one time? I'm sure it was during the "angry and confused" period.
That is just an u21 pre-season game. If Luke Shaw is on the tour then he wouldn't able to play in games like that.
Presumably a few more will be added.
Can't see us fitting two games into those ten days personally. With the potential for injuries so close to the beginning of the season I think LvG would rather train.
subtle wum
