[OldTrevil]

Had one of his performances that tend to be swept under the rug...

Decision making still bad, and on nights when nothing is coming off his selfishness becomes extremely annoying

 

[Volumiza]

Had one of his performances that tend to be swept under the rug...

If we keep doing that we’ll need a bigger rug that’s for sure.

 

[OldTrevil]

If we keep doing that we’ll need a bigger rug that’s for sure.

Ahah

 

[Godfather]

Wonder whether him or the likes of Martial will ever be considered as greats of the game. Truly great footballers at least have some kind of consistency to their game. Their lowest level is still decent. These two however.... They can go from really really good to absolute doghsit within one week

 

[Volumiza]

Wonder whether him or the likes of Martial will ever be considered as greats of the game.

Martial, no way, just not got the right drive and attitude and I think Rashford is just a very good footballer but I don’t see him progressing much more if I’m being honest. I’d love to be proved wrong because I really like him and on his day, in the right conditions he looks amazing but those days are far too few for him to be considered world class or great.

He could have a great career however, that is a different thing entirely.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Martial, no way, just not got the right drive and attitude and I think Rashford is just a very good footballer but I don’t see him progressing much more if I’m being honest. I’d love to be proved wrong because I really like him and on his day, in the right conditions he looks amazing but those days are far too few for him to be considered world class or great.

He could have a great career however, that is a different thing entirely.

Good post and good assessment. Needs a world class player alongside.

However, last night he tried very hard to drag us back into the game. The set up was all wrong and he and Greenwood had to drop deeper to get the ball which just suited RBL. When we shifted to having more creative players, we could release them

 

[OldTrevil]

Wonder whether him or the likes of Martial will ever be considered as greats of the game. Truly great footballers at least have some kind of consistency to their game. Their lowest level is still decent. These two however.... They can go from really really good to absolute doghsit within one week

Martial's bottom level is no where near the claims you will see about it, he generally contributes significantly to our attack even when he doesn't score. In contrast Rashford's top level is also no where near the point its claimed, his decision making and overall attacking game still leaves a lot to be desired even when on form. Even more bizarre is how the two get grouped together when one is a media darling when the other is mainly scape goat number 2 after Pogba.

 

[Banana Republic]

Should be an impact player off the bench. Nowhere near consistent enough to be a nailed on starter. Miles off the level of our great sides off the past.

.....His decision making is barely better than someone like James, we really need to stop proclaiming him as some kind of potential world class talent.

......A more nuanced way to use him is called for: use him as a sub against tired defences when we have plenty of space.

100%
You cannot turn a blind eye to how he performs without the ball either.
No effort and no desire. No anticipation. No predatory instinct.
Ball watching and slowly jogging around aimlessly.
Failing to make runs into good positions and consistently moving into areas of the pitch where doesn't need to be, or shouldn't be when we're in possession .
No, or little pressing or defensive work in midfield and further up the pitch and when he tries, it's half hearted and limp.
Even when Marcus has scored goals and been hailed as a hero, these deficiencies have been apparent in those games too.
In all honesty, you have to conclude that he's really not that good a player, when you look at the overall, all round performance.

Had one of his performances that tend to be swept under the rug......

This is a big issue. Too many people wearing blinkers because the lad has scored a fair number of goals.
The goal contribution is great, but we're not going to progress with a starting player like this.
Using him as an impact sub seems fair.

p.s. I need likes....please.

 

[El Jefe]

Had one of his performances that tend to be swept under the rug...

Decision making still bad, and on nights when nothing is coming off his selfishness becomes extremely annoying

I'm noticing this too. Imagine if Martial put in the performance Rashford did, we wouldn't hear the end of it from pundits and fans, his thread would have had five extra pages by now.

Rashford has many games like this but quite often to his credit, he's still able to gloss it over by a goal or assist (or both). The only difference between his performance last night and the PSG away game was the late goal, he was horrible in that game but it gets forgotten.

I like Rashford but he absolutely can't be our main man in attack and neither can Martial. He played like a kid yesterday at a time when we needed a calm head and composure up front.

 

[Godfather]

Martial's bottom level is no where near the claims you will see about it, he generally contributes significantly to our attack even when he doesn't score. In contrast Rashford's top level is also no where near the point its claimed, his decision making and overall attacking game still leaves a lot to be desired even when on form. Even more bizarre is how the two get grouped together when one is a media darling when the other is mainly scape goat number 2 after Pogba.

Well Martial showed against PSG that this is not necessarily true. Couldn't control a football in that game.

 

[GenZRed]

I just can't see him becoming an elite player. A solid Premiership player, yes, but not an elite one.

He is too hot and cold. His shot when it was 3-2 yesterday against RBL was dire.

 

[Wayne's World]

His lack of a left-foot is infuriating. Constanly gets himself into good positions and lacks any football intelligence to do anything or he decides to shift onto his right when the option isn't on.

It will stop him from becoming a good player to a great player

 

[Volumiza]

This is a big issue. Too many people wearing blinkers because the lad has scored a fair number of goals.
The goal contribution is great, but we're not going to progress with a starting player like this.
Using him as an impact sub seems fair.

Yes, Rashford is very popular as he has come through our youth ranks, I totally get that, but there needs to be a more realistic view of his level. It's very good on certain days. No more.

Regarding the bold bit. I disagree to an extent, I think he can have a long and productive career here but only if he isn't expected to be our star forward. I immediately feel better with him playing alongside Cavani and if we got another top level wide forward then Rashford can be a starter, he's just not quite good or consistent enough to be one of our main attacking players.

 

[acnumber9]

Martial's bottom level is no where near the claims you will see about it, he generally contributes significantly to our attack even when he doesn't score. In contrast Rashford's top level is also no where near the point its claimed, his decision making and overall attacking game still leaves a lot to be desired even when on form. Even more bizarre is how the two get grouped together when one is a media darling when the other is mainly scape goat number 2 after Pogba.

It’s definitely weird to group the two together currently when one has a fifth of the goals that the other has.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Van Gaal always used to rightly point out that you can get very good performances from young players but you can never expect consistency.
I wish we would remember this instead of making them automatic first choice whilst providing little to no competition, huge contracts and first team shirt numbers. These should be hard earned at this club through consistent performances not given out to any half decent youngster in a purple patch.

 

[HowieC]

Martial's bottom level is no where near the claims you will see about it, he generally contributes significantly to our attack even when he doesn't score. In contrast Rashford's top level is also no where near the point its claimed, his decision making and overall attacking game still leaves a lot to be desired even when on form. Even more bizarre is how the two get grouped together when one is a media darling when the other is mainly scape goat number 2 after Pogba.

Great objective post. Although against west ham martial was terrible in every which way, generally even when hes whiffing open goals (not as often as recent memory would suggest) he contributed to the buildup with sure touches, decent passes and good hold up play.

Rashfords top level still involves plenty of losses of possession from being tackled and at least one easy miss per game

 

[shamans]

He's a little shite when compared to proper elite level attackers. Personally don't think we are ever winning a premier league with him as our main attacker.

 

[The United]

His decision making at times this seasons is like Ronaldo's. It was when Ronaldo was about 20 and a lot of people were calling him one trick pony and should sell him for 30m.

 

[Cecc07]

I'm not sure which one is more overrated Rashford or Pogba. Again awful performance and terrible decision making.

 

[OldTrevil]

This is a big issue. Too many people wearing blinkers because the lad has scored a fair number of goals.
The goal contribution is great, but we're not going to progress with a starting player like this.
Using him as an impact sub seems fair.

p.s. I need likes....please.

I believe we can progress with him, just not the version where he's deluded into being the focal attacking point and having CR7 levels of selfishness. He should focus on being a better version of himself, which is a wing forward who is moderately clinical, highly threatens with his pace and trickery, but ultimately needs a more clinical and cultured footballer at the focal point of the attack to neat things together and create space for him to exploit. We have already seen how him and Martial, and you can add in Mason for that matter, are devastating when they buy in into working together as a frontline.

I'm noticing this too. Imagine if Martial put in the performance Rashford did, we wouldn't hear the end of it from pundits and fans, his thread would have had five extra pages by now.

Rashford has many games like this but quite often to his credit, he's still able to gloss it over by a goal or assist (or both). The only difference between his performance last night and the PSG away game was the late goal, he was horrible in that game but it gets forgotten.

I like Rashford but he absolutely can't be our main man in attack and neither can Martial. He played like a kid yesterday at a time when we needed a calm head and composure up front.

We wouldn't hear the end of it. The guy gets criticized even when he doesn't play

For me Martial can definitely lead our attack, as he showed perfectly well in the two seasons he was trusted to do it at United. This strange season he has barely got going, and people are bizarrely laying into him as if the season just past didn't happen or something.

Well Martial showed against PSG that this is not necessarily true. Couldn't control a football in that game.

Didn't our only goal in that second PSG game come from the keeper parrying his shot into Rashford's path for the eventual deflected shot to happen? For me other than the first two league games of the season, where everyone played shit and unfit, Martial has been heavily involved in most of our good attacking moves despite his finishing being off.

It’s definitely weird to group the two together currently when one has a fifth of the goals that the other has.

If you're into dismissing one of our best players, barely into the season when he hasn't played that much, go ahead and enjoy that discussion with the rest of the Martial hate brigade.

Great objective post. Although against west ham martial was terrible in every which way, generally even when hes whiffing open goals (not as often as recent memory would suggest) he contributed to the buildup with sure touches, decent passes and good hold up play.

Rashfords top level still involves plenty of losses of possession from being tackled and at least one easy miss per game

Not really, in the first half of the West Ham game Martial was our only attacker who seemed to get anything right going forward. He wasn't as involved in the second half when Rashford's game picked up and we started getting some joy on the right side, and right on cue the narrative became that Martial was woeful the whole game. Go back and watch that first half again if you want to check

 

[acnumber9]

I believe we can progress with him, just not the version where he's deluded into being the focal attacking point and having CR7 levels of selfishness. He should focus on being a better version of himself, which is a wing forward who is moderately clinical, highly threatens with his pace and trickery, but ultimately needs a more clinical and cultured footballer at the focal point of the attack to neat things together and create space for him to exploit. We have already seen how him and Martial, and you can add in Mason for that matter, are devastating when they buy in into working together as a frontline.


We wouldn't hear the end of it. The guy gets criticized even when he doesn't play

For me Martial can definitely lead our attack, as he showed perfectly well in the two seasons he was trusted to do it at United. This strange season he has barely got going, and people are bizarrely laying into him as if the season just past didn't happen or something.


Didn't our only goal in that second PSG game come from the keeper parrying his shot into Rashford's path for the eventual deflected shot to happen? For me other than the first two league games of the season, where everyone played shit and unfit, Martial has been heavily involved in most of our good attacking moves despite his finishing being off.


If you're into dismissing one of our best players, barely into the season when he hasn't played that much, go ahead and enjoy that discussion with the rest of the Martial hate brigade.


Not really, in the first half of the West Ham game Martial was our only attacker who seemed to get anything right going forward. He wasn't as involved in the second half when Rashford's game picked up and we started getting some joy on the right side, and right on cue the narrative became that Martial was woeful the whole game. Go back and watch that first half again if you want to check

And you can continue to talk shite about Rashford just because he’s outperforming your little hero.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

100%
You cannot turn a blind eye to how he performs without the ball either.
No effort and no desire. No anticipation. No predatory instinct.
Ball watching and slowly jogging around aimlessly.
Failing to make runs into good positions and consistently moving into areas of the pitch where doesn't need to be, or shouldn't be when we're in possession .
No, or little pressing or defensive work in midfield and further up the pitch and when he tries, it's half hearted and limp.

I agree with you completely over the last year or so - but it's interesting that it wasn't always the case.

In fact, for me, it was the complete opposite. In the past he still had the inconsistency to his game, and a low bottom level in terms of his technical stuff (touch, dribbling) but he was always an absolute livewire who worked hard for 90 minutes a game. He pressed - often by himself like Bruno does now - he tracked back, offered a decent defensive contribution, was a consistent off-ball threat, committed a man, had actual intensity and passion in his game.

Nowadays he's one of the worst in the squad in terms of effort. All the things you noted above, and he's also developed a habit of going down every time somebody breathes on him before taking 30 seconds to pick himself up, followed by complaining and walking around for a while. By itself, not a huge thing, but coupled with everything else it's just endemic of the lack of fire or interest in his game.

I'm not even going to put it down to an injury because we've definitely entered Schrodinger's Rashford Injury territory, where every time he plays badly or there's criticism of his effort it's definitely some injury...and every time he plays well or gets on a run of form, there's nothing.

So given that he's playing 90 minutes a game, playing Wed/Sat back to backs...you have to judge him assuming he's fit.

 

[Red00012]

I wonder if we gave Dortmund Rashford and Martial could we have Haaland. Would clear a lot of inconsistency for pure class Could also throw in a young English talent in Lingard for good measure

 

[Banana Republic]

I wonder if we gave Dortmund Rashford and Martial could we have Haaland. Would clear a lot of inconsistency for pure class Could also throw in a young English talent in Lingard for good measure

Haaland is one of Raiola’s players. He’s not coming to Utd and he shouldn’t be coming, if he’s represented by that scumbag.

 

[archiebald]

We should look to use him as an impact sub for derby weekend. Bring him on in the second half when he can look to catch Walker out of position with breakaway runs on the counter.

 

[HowieC]

We should look to use him as an impact sub for derby weekend. Bring him on in the second half when he can look to catch Walker out of position with breakaway runs on the counter.

Frankly while he’s simply too poor to start for an aspiring top side, we don’t have great options.

Cavani and greenwood are better players, but both would want to start up top.

And martial should be in the equation as well despite his pior form.

 

[AjaxNL]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...iker-says-he-can-only-see-himself-at-the-club

Apologies to the mods if this is not the thread to post this in, feel free to merge/delete.

I don't watch United regularly, but I catch one, maybe two games a month. Rashford always strikes me as a spectacular player, his dribbling abilities at high speed are a joy to watch. I don't know whether he is currently playing to the best of his abilities, or how high his ceiling exactly is. What i do know is, for me he is one of the players for whom I'd watch United. Plus, obviously, he is a terrific, prolific person off the pitch. All in all, one of my favourite players in the game these days.

 

[MadDogg]

It’s definitely weird to group the two together currently when one has a fifth of the goals that the other has.

Martial has obviously been shit this season. Rashford's general performances haven't actually been much better, but unlike Martial he's still getting the goals and assists so credit to him for that.

However before this season the two of them have generally been quite even. Rashford's 2-3 month period before the injury last season is the best either of them have played, but Martial has probably had the slight edge overall.

 

[OldTrevil]

And you can continue to talk shite about Rashford just because he’s outperforming your little hero.

 

[Isotope]

He's still playing with injury. He doesn't press much as usual in his whole career when healthy. I don't know how people can't see that.

 

[treble_winner]

Van Gaal always used to rightly point out that you can get very good performances from young players but you can never expect consistency.
I wish we would remember this instead of making them automatic first choice whilst providing little to no competition, huge contracts and first team shirt numbers. These should be hard earned at this club through consistent performances not given out to any half decent youngster in a purple patch.

But people get irritated when Ole refused to bench De Dea in favor of Dean Henderson, though? Axel Tuanzebe is another case.

 

[Brwned]

He's still playing with injury. He doesn't press much as usual in his whole career when healthy. I don't know how people can't see that.

Agreed. And he's been forced to play a lot in either a role he struggles in (lone striker) or a series of formations the team is still trying to figure out (e.g. Bruno as a false nine). In spite of those challenges he's still been very dangerous so I think it's impressive on the whole.

The one big question mark is whether he can combine his creative play from the second half of last year with his goals in the first. He does seem to veer from one extreme to the other. Its mot unusual for young players to have those decision making issues, but it seems plausible that might always hold him back from being a top player.

 

[Isotope]

Agreed. And he's been forced to play a lot in either a role he struggles in (lone striker) or a series of formations the team is still trying to figure out (e.g. Bruno as a false nine). In spite of those challenges he's still been very dangerous so I think it's impressive on the whole.

The one big question mark is whether he can combine his creative play from the second half of last year with his goals in the first. He does seem to veer from one extreme to the other. Its mot unusual for young players to have those decision making issues, but it seems plausible that might always hold him back from being a top player.

I just think that back and shoulder injuries really limit him to be more physical. And maybe it also hold him back to do more intense training, lessening time to improve his decision making.

I think that changing formation is more of an issue itself. No successful team in the whole football history (on my limited knowledge) constantly change their formations/tactics like us currently. It confuses opponent, and it confuses the players also.

Anyway. Rashford is one of the players i have least concern about. Other than Bruno, he's the only player in this team that worth to watch, imho. And he's only 23 y.o. A big team like United shouldn't rely solely on him to score goals.

 

[Brwned]

I just think that back and shoulder injuries really limit him to be more physical. And maybe it also hold him back to do more intense training, lessening time to improve his decision making.

I think that changing formation is more of an issue itself. No successful team in the whole football history (on my limited knowledge) constantly change their formations/tactics like us currently. It confuses opponent, and it confuses the players also.

Anyway. Rashford is one of the players i have least concern about. Other than Bruno, he's the only player in this team that worth to watch, imho. And he's only 23 y.o. A big team like United shouldn't rely solely on him to score goals.

Yeah agreed. He shoulders a lot of responsibility quite well. I'm surprised he has many critics tbh. He's already a much better player than I expected when he first broke through, he's shown a lot of glimpses that he could be something more, and he's one of the few players we've had in the last decade that regularly delivers moments of magic and provides a bit of joy on the field. I get that people like to complain about things but there are many more worthy things to complain about in this United team alone.

 

[kouroux]

Frankly while he’s simply too poor to start for an aspiring top side, we don’t have great options.

Cavani and greenwood are better players, but both would want to start up top.

And martial should be in the equation as well despite his pior form.

Greenwood isn't a better player than Rashford yet

 

[Alan Partridge]

Such a frustrating player. Him and Martial have such tunnel vision: get the ball and immediately try run directly at the goal ignoring the passes around them that could really unlock a defense. Not to mention their movement off the ball which basically doesn’t exist.

We lack intelligent playmakers who pass and move and pull defenders out of position. This is why Bruno had such a big impact imo and even Mata provides something despite his obvious limitations.

 

[Isotope]

Yeah agreed. He shoulders a lot of responsibility quite well. I'm surprised he has many critics tbh. He's already a much better player than I expected when he first broke through, he's shown a lot of glimpses that he could be something more, and he's one of the few players we've had in the last decade that regularly delivers moments of magic and provides a bit of joy on the field. I get that people like to complain about things but there are many more worthy things to complain about in this United team alone.

Come to think about team constantly changing formations. Ajax with Cruyff leading? I still think they're organized, not just some random play; but i could be wrong.

Anyway, Rashford does like Henry when running full speed with the ball on his long feet. It's just a sight to behold.

 

[Brwned]

Come to think about team constantly changing formations. Ajax with Cruyff leading? I still think they're organized, not just some random play; but i could be wrong.

Anyway, Rashford does like Henry when running full speed with the ball on his long feet. It's just a sight to behold.

Yeah I guess the difference with Ajax is that they had a clearly defined way of playing that held constant in spite of the changing formations. For us, we don't have a clearly defined way of playing and to me it seems like with each formation we're trying to play a different way. If we're playing the diamond it's because we want to play possession football, if we're playing 352 it's because we want to play counter-attacking football, etc. It's very difficult for any attacker to find rhythm in that situation.

 

[MadDogg]

He's still playing with injury. He doesn't press much as usual in his whole career when healthy. I don't know how people can't see that.

His reduced pressing started last season before the injury. I do think it may have got worse after it, but even before the injury it had been very noticeable all season. Indeed even 'lazy' Martial pressed more than Rashford last season.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

He's still playing with injury. He doesn't press much as usual in his whole career when healthy. I don't know how people can't see that.

His pressing is getting worse since season 17/18.
His real good pressing ability is back for around 3 months when Ole is the caretaker, then Ole doesn't care anymore about high press and runnings, and it's back to shit.

It's shit now. I don't know how people can't see that.