[NinjaFletch]

As bad a mistake as it was, am I the only one who thinks that technically it shouldn't have been a penalty?

FIFA's Laws of the Game say "Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm." Lindelof's handball did not look deliberate at all.

His arm was high and away from his body, but it looks like he was doing that to keep his balance rather than to intentionally touch the ball. Indeed, the Laws of the Game say that "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence."

I'm not surprised the referee gave a penalty as they often do in these situations (when the handball is unintentional but clumsy). However, it seems there's a clear disconnect between what's written in the rules and what's enforced in practice when it comes to handballs.

This debate happens every time there's a handball and I fully agree with your interpretation that to the letter of the law this isn't a penalty (probably); no player would deliberately kick the ball into their own arm.

The problem is that it's so well conditioned that it should be a penalty that it being given as one is completely uncontroversial.

The law needs to be rewritten to remove the language that necessitates referees be mind readers, and then we can scrap all of the bollocks interpretations that go with it.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He did alright yesterday granted it was a poor penalty to give away. Apart from that he played well. People here go way over the top as usual with players.

Granted though Smalling has played really well so would pick him ahead of Lindelöf right now.

 

[Sunny Jim]

 

[VorZakone]

Sweden were pretty shaky yesterday and he wasn't helping. He just looks like a disaster waiting to happen tbh.

 

[CM]

Everything I'd read about him prior to signing suggested he was this ultra smooth Ice Man, yet everything I've seen of him so far just shows him to be a massive bag of nerves.

I understand some players need an adjustment period but it can't be a great sign when he looks just as clumsy for his country.

 

[JMack1234]

Hahahaha

You actually can't make this place up sometimes. If go a few pages back you're reading all about how much he suits a three man defence, how good his passing is etc etc

Now, because of one clumsy mistake in a meaningless international, it's all about how he's not Utd quality and he's our worst signing since the last one.

Seriously guys chill..

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Pointless signing.

 

[Harry190]

I call it now. 2 years from now, he will be the best defender in the PL.

People are incredibly shortsighted. One year ago, everybody claimed Rojo was the worst defender ever.

You don't become the best defender when you don't have balls. He doesn't have any. Nor any other outstanding physical attributes to make up for it. People were complaining about Rojo on the left but he always had an edge to him. A bit of malice. This guy is a pushover.

 

[kouroux]

I call it now. 2 years from now, he will be the best defender in the PL.

People are incredibly shortsighted. One year ago, everybody claimed Rojo was the worst defender ever.

Just like that huh ???

 

[KirkDuyt]

Only special thing he did last night was starting the time wasting after about 19 minutes into the first half. Not his fault Sweden are shite though. Still can't believe we finished 3rd behind that bunch. Shame on us.

 

[Adebesi]

How long is it going to take for this guy to get up to speed?

 

[haram]

I think we bought him for when we play 3 at the back. We're not using the formation much as Jose didn't get Perisic.

 

[AgentP]

You don't become the best defender when you don't have balls. He doesn't have any. Nor any other outstanding physical attributes to make up for it. People were complaining about Rojo on the left but he always had an edge to him. A bit of malice. This guy is a pushover.

A bit harsh but true.

 

[Kapardin]

I call it now. 2 years from now, he will be the best defender in the PL.

People are incredibly shortsighted. One year ago, everybody claimed Rojo was the worst defender ever.

You are basically making a prediction against the general opinion simply because it is a prediction that is against general opinion. Going by that logic, any shite player can be said to become world class in 2 years. Lindelof has shown nothing to show he can become a top class defender.

With Rojo, it was different. We had LvG, under whom some players like Martial and Smalling thrived, while others like Rojo could not hack it. And LvG's system made it hard to discriminate whether a player was playing well due to his talent, or was protected by the system.

Chalk this signing down as a dud. Every manager signs duds occasionally, Jose is no different.

 

[Adebesi]

You are basically making a prediction against the general opinion simply because it is a prediction that is against general opinion. Going by that logic, any shite player can be said to become world class in 2 years. Lindelof has shown nothing to show he can become a top class defender.

With Rojo, it was different. We had LvG, under whom some players like Martial and Smalling thrived, while others like Rojo could not hack it. And LvG's system made it hard to discriminate whether a player was playing well due to his talent, or was protected by the system.

Chalk this signing down as a dud. Every manager signs duds occasionally, Jose is no different.

I'm not giving up hope yet. Holding on to that memory of Vidic and Evra's first few months. I'm hoping we'll start to see him phased in and doing well in the second half of the season.

But of course I wouldn't bet my house on him making it here either.

 

[simmee]

You are basically making a prediction against the general opinion simply because it is a prediction that is against general opinion. Going by that logic, any shite player can be said to become world class in 2 years. Lindelof has shown nothing to show he can become a top class defender.

With Rojo, it was different. We had LvG, under whom some players like Martial and Smalling thrived, while others like Rojo could not hack it. And LvG's system made it hard to discriminate whether a player was playing well due to his talent, or was protected by the system.

Chalk this signing down as a dud. Every manager signs duds occasionally, Jose is no different.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're saying he has shown nothing yet. You haven't seen him show anything yet, which just means you haven't watched him before this summer. Now you can kindly take a nice stroll to some other player thread and express your well thought out opinion.

Sorry @Varun , got a bit carried away...

 

[Varun]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're saying he has shown nothing yet. You haven't seen him show anything yet, which just means you haven't watched him before this summer. Now you can kindly feck off to some other player thread and spout your bullshit.

Relax.

 

[Sammyjunn]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're saying he has shown nothing yet. You haven't seen him show anything yet, which just means you haven't watched him before this summer. Now you can kindly feck off to some other player thread and spout your bullshit.

I have watched Lindelof before and didnt think he was anything special. He is decent on the ball but an average defender otherwise, slow, weak, poor in the air, passive, average in his tackling. Basically an inferior Blind, but he is young and will improve.

 

[Kapardin]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're saying he has shown nothing yet. You haven't seen him show anything yet, which just means you haven't watched him before this summer. Now you can kindly take a nice stroll to some other player thread and express your well thought out opinion.

Sorry Varun...

This thread is about Lindelof, so I talk about Lindelof here and not elsewhere.

You are welcome to think he can be world class, just as I am to think otherwise. Now, you can continue posting in this thread, because I don't see the point of asking others to post elsewhere anyway.

 

[simmee]

This thread is about Lindelof, so I talk about Lindelof here and not elsewhere.

You are welcome to think he can be world class, just as I am to think otherwise. Now, you can continue posting in this thread, because I don't see the point of asking others to post elsewhere anyway.

Why do you feel the need to make stuff up to bash our own players?

 

[Kapardin]

Why do you feel the need to make stuff up to bash our own players?

Nobody is making stuff up here. Just opinions on whether a player can be good or not, based on each person's observations. Its' not as though anyone is predicting the future, anyone can be proven wrong.

Just because he is our player doesn't mean we have to sing his praises. For instance, Ashley Young, for all his hard work, will always be an average player and nothing more. Doesn't mean we hate him.

If nobody had contrasting opinions and merely spoke about the strengths of a player without arguing about his weaknesses, there would be no discussion.

And I am not even sure why you are taking this personally.

 

[simmee]

Nobody is making stuff up here. Just opinions on whether a player can be good or not, based on each person's observations. Its' not as though anyone is predicting the future, anyone can be proven wrong.

Just because he is our player doesn't mean we have to sing his praises. For instance, Ashley Young, for all his hard work, will always be an average player and nothing more. Doesn't mean we hate him.

If nobody had contrasting opinions and merely spoke about the strengths of a player without arguing about his weaknesses, there would be no discussion.

And I am not even sure why you are taking this personally.

You said he hasn't shown anything to suggest he can be top class. He was named in the team of the tournament in the European under-21 championship and in the champions league breakthrough XI just last year...

It just shows you barely know anything about him and have watched for maybe 5 full games (and I think I'm being kind here).

 

[Kapardin]

You said he hasn't shown anything to suggest he can be top class. He was named in the team of the tournament in the European under-21 championship and in the champions league breakthrough XI just last year...

It just shows you barely know anything about him and have watched for maybe 5 full games (and I think I'm being kind here).

I have watched his United games and when he played for Sweden after joining United, and I stick to my opinion that he has not shown anything to be world class. He's actually not shown he's capable of dislodging any of the 4 defenders who are above him in the pecking order at United, and those 4 are not exactly at an untouchable level themselves!

Doing well in the U-21s or standing out at that level is something many players do, but it doesn't mean they go on to become world class.

As one other poster said, if Lindelof improves, he might be at the level of Blind at best based on his characteristics, which again is not enough for United. Blind himself is average, though a handy squad player to have perhaps.

 

[simmee]

I have watched his United games and when he played for Sweden after joining United, and I stick to my opinion that he has not shown anything to be world class. He's actually not shown he's capable of dislodging any of the 4 defenders who are above him in the pecking order at United, and those 4 are not exactly at an untouchable level themselves!

Doing well in the U-21s or standing out at that level is something many players do, but it doesn't mean they go on to become world class.

As one other poster said, if Lindelof improves, he might be at the level of Blind at best based on his characteristics, which again is not enough for United. Blind himself is average, though a handy squad player to have perhaps.

You changed top class to world class. Do you realise how few players actually become world class?

He hasn't yet (in 2 months) dislodged anyone from a defence so far conceding 2 goals in the league? Sell him!

Yes, that's what many players do. Except in the real world there's actually only one at each position from the tournament. There's never a guarantee that a young player will become world class, that's only what kids playing FIFA thinks.

No comment on already performing in the champions league then and being picked for the breakthrough eleven? Doesn't show anything I guess?

The characteristics being he's good on the ball? He's both stronger and faster than Blind. It's just a lazy comparison made by people who can't wait longer than 2 months to call a young player a dud.

 

[Kapardin]

You changed top class to world class. Do you realise how few players actually become world class?

He hasn't yet (in 2 months) dislodged anyone from a defence so far conceding 2 goals in the league? Sell him!

Yes, that's what many players do. Except in the real world there's actually only one at each position from the tournament. There's never a guarantee that a young player will become world class, that's only what kids playing FIFA thinks.

No comment on already performing in the champions league then and being picked for the breakthrough eleven? Doesn't show anything I guess?

The characteristics being he's good on the ball? He's both stronger and faster than Blind. It's just a lazy comparison made by people who can't wait longer than 2 months to call a young player a dud.

Semantics. OK, I feel that he won't be top class (atleast for us, in this league at a top 6 club level) and he won't be world class in my opinion. Hope that clarifies.

No, not because he hasn't just dislodged any, but he has also not shown any aptitude that he can be better than these 4. Which makes his buy quite unnecessary as we have CBs better than him in their prime. And where did I say we should sell him? Just predicted that he's a dud.

Being picked for the CL breakthrough XI once again does not mean he's a cert to make it. Its' the breakthrough XI, which implies players with potential. And potential does not mean those who make the breakthrough XI are certs to make it as well.

And obviously, he would be picked for Benfica to play in the CL as they can do with that level of player.

And I would obviously be delighted to be proven wrong as he's playing for us. Nobody is an oracle here. You have your opinion, I have mine. That's enough for now, let him first break into the United squad on a consistent basis before continuing this debate.

 

[simmee]

Semantics. OK, I feel that he won't be top class (atleast for us, in this league at a top 6 club level) and he won't be world class in my opinion. Hope that clarifies.

No, not because he hasn't just dislodged any, but he has also not shown any aptitude that he can be better than these 4. Which makes his buy quite unnecessary as we have CBs better than him in their prime. And where did I say we should sell him? Just predicted that he's a dud.

Being picked for the CL breakthrough XI once again does not mean he's a cert to make it. Its' the breakthrough XI, which implies players with potential. And potential does not mean those who make the breakthrough XI are certs to make it as well.

And obviously, he would be picked for Benfica to play in the CL as they can do with that level of player.

And I would obviously be delighted to be proven wrong as he's playing for us. Nobody is an oracle here. You have your opinion, I have mine. That's enough for now, let him first break into the United squad on a consistent basis before continuing this debate.

Nothing makes you a cert to make until you actually do... You on the other hand said he hasn't shown anything to suggest he would be top class. But at the same time you say that being picked in the CL breakthrough eleven means that you are a young player with potential...

 

[poacher]

Watching Davinson Sanchez playing for Spurs brings home how poor a signing Lindelof was. Sanchez is fast and strong and composed whereas Lindelof looks shaky, weak and error-prone. People say that it takes time to settle in a new club but why does Sanchez settle straight into the Spurs defense like Baily did for us last year and Lindelof look so useless? I can't believe we spent 31m and 120k per week on a guy that struggles to even make the bench. There is a poster above that is claiming Lindelof will be the best CB in the EPL within two years, I would be absolutely shocked if that occurs.

 

[Kostov]

Watching Davinson Sanchez playing for Spurs brings home how poor a signing Lindelof was. Sanchez is fast and strong and composed whereas Lindelof looks shaky, weak and error-prone. People say that it takes time to settle in a new club but why does Sanchez settle straight into the Spurs defense like Baily did for us last year and Lindelof look so useless? I can't believe we spent 31m and 120k per week on a guy that struggles to even make the bench. There is a poster above that is claiming Lindelof will be the best CB in the EPL within two years, I would be absolutely shocked if that occurs.

Different players adapt to new surroundings differently, and it doesn't mean the ones that do it faster will be the better player in the long run. I'm sure there were better CB in the league than Vidic back in 2006, we all know how that ended. I'm not saying Lindelof will be better than Sanchez, but it's too early to write off Lindelof. I'm not convinced with him either but it's October, and he's played like 5 games.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Watching Davinson Sanchez playing for Spurs brings home how poor a signing Lindelof was. Sanchez is fast and strong and composed whereas Lindelof looks shaky, weak and error-prone. People say that it takes time to settle in a new club but why does Sanchez settle straight into the Spurs defense like Baily did for us last year and Lindelof look so useless? I can't believe we spent 31m and 120k per week on a guy that struggles to even make the bench. There is a poster above that is claiming Lindelof will be the best CB in the EPL within two years, I would be absolutely shocked if that occurs.

Writing him off after a grand total of 360 minutes of football is the only shocking thing here.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Doing alright so far.

 

[SirAF]

I like his long balls.

 

[Kapardin]

Looks like he's the least of our problems with the shiteshow in attack and midfield. Done ok today though, and Smalling seems to complement him well.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Best game for Utd ?

Looked good tonight.

 

[el3mel]

Great game. Didn't put a foot wrong and was excellent each time he faced a threat.

He's growing into it.

 

[KM]

Looked very assured, the passing was good. Confidence building match for him. Good stuff.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Good for him to get a clean sheet. Solid overall.

 

[Z_Wolf]

Best game for Utd ?

Looked good tonight.

That's not saying much tbh.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Best player on the pitch. Physically superior and pretty much all decisions spot on.

 

[K2K]

Id start him v Swansea and the return leg against Benfica

 

[King.of.Red]

good game. cant wait to see him become starter in EPL.