Westminster Politics

nickm

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Your math doesn’t math.

We already have more properties than people. It’s who owns it, which ones are filled and by whom that’s the problem.
Your facts don't fact.

England has fewer houses relative to population than the OECD average (434 homes/1000 v 487/1000).

England has the lowest rate of available properties in the OECD.

England has the highest proportion of substandard homes in Europe - worse than Poland and Bulgaria - because we don't replace old housing fast enough

We have the 3rd lowest rate of vacant homes in Europe at 2.7% Vs the OECD benchmark of 6.9%

Source - home builders federation analysis based on OECD data.

But hey, you can also you know, just look around.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Unless the government builds a few million council houses (where, how are they paid for, what happens to property prices and by extension UK economy) then they fill a need. People must live somewhere and not everybody can buy/wants to buy. If you kill the private rental market there is nowhere for them to go and what does remain multiplies in price.

If you argue that nobody should have more than one house and therefore there is enough to go around, then you can blame the government for that one not being viable. When Gordon Brown screwed private pensions people turned to buy to lets to supplement the inadequate state pension. Get rid of that and the government is going to have to pay for all those people's retirements or risk losing 3 million votes.
‘People turned to buy to lets to supplement pensions’ is a crock of shit.

That sentence actually means;

“People that had the ability, got someone else to buy them a house and pay for their retirement”

If you’re ok with that, cool. But I’ve yet to hear a compelling argument for private landlords that isn’t just a translation for ‘Let’s bake in wealth inequality because I don’t care’.
 

MegadrivePerson

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What actually is the logic with football and votes? Cus Englands won feck all so wheres that trail of thought/data come from?
They don't have anything else left to go on?
It's pretty much all they have left.
Hope for some nice weather and England wins the football.

I'd imagine their list looked something like this,

Tory 24 Campaign Strategy
The NHS
Schools
Immigration
The National Train System
The Prison System
The Roads
Water Companies
Food Prices
House Prices
Rent Prices
Local Councils
Public Libraries

Warm weather
England might win the Euro's.
 

11101

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‘People turned to buy to lets to supplement pensions’ is a crock of shit.

That sentence actually means;

“People that had the ability, got someone else to buy them a house and pay for their retirement”

If you’re ok with that, cool. But I’ve yet to hear a compelling argument for private landlords that isn’t just a translation for ‘Let’s bake in wealth inequality because I don’t care’.
Except its not. People in the private sector held private pensions and got a good income through their retirement. There were roughly 2 million privately rented homes and about half of UK shares were owned domestically. Then Gordon Brown decided to tax the pensions. They became worthless. You lost a big chunk of your income and also all the growth from the reinvested dividends. People looked for an alternative. That was in 1997. In 1998 the first buy to let mortgage was launched. By 2015 the number of private rentals had trebled to almost 6 million. UK institutions now own less than 4% of UK companies. He crippled the retirement income for people and they went and found an alternative. Idiotic politicians always cause unintended consequences.

It was amongst the stupidest decisions ever made by a politician (he had a few contenders in that list) and is directly responsible for a lot of the shit we find ourselves in now.


You did say you were asking in good faith after all...
 

Jippy

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Except its not. People in the private sector held private pensions and got a good income through their retirement. There were roughly 2 million privately rented homes and about half of UK shares were owned domestically. Then Gordon Brown decided to tax the pensions. They became worthless. You lost a big chunk of your income and also all the growth from the reinvested dividends. People looked for an alternative. That was in 1997. In 1998 the first buy to let mortgage was launched. By 2015 the number of private rentals had trebled to almost 6 million. UK institutions now own less than 4% of UK companies. He crippled the retirement income for people and they went and found an alternative. Idiotic politicians always cause unintended consequences.

It was amongst the stupidest decisions ever made by a politician (he had a few contenders in that list) and is directly responsible for a lot of the shit we find ourselves in now.


You did say you were asking in good faith after all...
Brown exacerbated the problem with pensions, but the demise of final salary pensions was the way bigger issue.
 

Frosty

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David Cameron is returning to the UK early from a trip to Albania.

We will know if there is a July election by tomorrow.

Edit: Cabinet Ministers are also cancelling their media bookings.
 

Smores

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Certainly seems like there's a lot more noise this time, July election seems very likely.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Except its not. People in the private sector held private pensions and got a good income through their retirement. There were roughly 2 million privately rented homes and about half of UK shares were owned domestically. Then Gordon Brown decided to tax the pensions. They became worthless. You lost a big chunk of your income and also all the growth from the reinvested dividends. People looked for an alternative. That was in 1997. In 1998 the first buy to let mortgage was launched. By 2015 the number of private rentals had trebled to almost 6 million. UK institutions now own less than 4% of UK companies. He crippled the retirement income for people and they went and found an alternative. Idiotic politicians always cause unintended consequences.

It was amongst the stupidest decisions ever made by a politician (he had a few contenders in that list) and is directly responsible for a lot of the shit we find ourselves in now.


You did say you were asking in good faith after all...
I truly was asking in good faith. That involves openness.

I truly don’t give a damn which Prime Minister or Party did what. Both barrels at all of them. I’m not backing Labour on this.

But there’s no social utility in private landlords. Your numbers speak to that. 6 million homes being purchased for people that have more, by people with less.

Who did it and why simply doesn’t matter. My good faith question was ‘What purpose/role do private landlords provide for society as a whole’. Your response was to justify it by claiming it as a replacement income stream for wealthy people who could pay one mortgage, and get another mortgage to allow a renter to buy it for them.

It’s another area where it gets easily muddled. You DO need a non zero amount of private landlords as people move regions, countries, suburbs routinely. Students find homes after university and don’t want to buy. You obviously need a rental market that’s not under social control.

But the moment that passes the tipping point and you’ve got millions of people unable to buy a house identical to the one they’re renting for £1000 a month, while the mortgage would cost them £800 is evidence of the stupidity of it all.

The transfer of wealth is baked in. Destroys generations. The number of necessary privately rented properties is tiny. That it’s now where it is, and instead of the market bubble bursting, we just add on an Airbnb middle man and offer short term lets with no ID verification and and and. Layers of costs added. It’s utterly depressing.

Very cross at the insanity of it all. Not you. So apologies if I sound confrontational.
 

Vidyoyo

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i think once you start letting people own their own homes, they’ll soon want better lives for themselves and their children. that’s only going to come at shareholder expense. i bet none of you even thought about those poor shareholders.
I personally did but I didn't want to say it in case all the woke lefty loons who don't care about shareholder profit at their expense ganged up on me

You know people from Bristol and what not
 

Jippy

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Businesses saw an easy way to limit their outgoings?
More a combo of gilt yields collapsing, increasing longevity, outdated modelling etc...They just became unviable if people are living 20 years beyond retirement, rather than five or so when they were introduced, particularly for companies with massive workforces.
 

DanH

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An absolute turn up for the books. I thought they would hold off for as long as possible without making it seem too desperate (November/December election). Perhaps they have realised that the economic news is as rosy as it's going to get this year so decided to go now?
 

Guy Incognito

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An absolute turn up for the books. I thought they would hold off for as long as possible without making it seem too desperate (November/December election). Perhaps they have realised that the economic news is as rosy as it's going to get this year so decided to go now?
Yeah, Hunt can't make the cuts he want.
 

Berbasbullet

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Maybe an element of struggling to get people out canvassing in the dark autumn/winter? Or am I reaching?
 

Fully Fledged

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An absolute turn up for the books. I thought they would hold off for as long as possible without making it seem too desperate (November/December election). Perhaps they have realised that the economic news is as rosy as it's going to get this year so decided to go now?
Students will be home from Universities and might not be able to vote.
 

Leg-End

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Alright, time for another complete run through of The Thick of It in preparation.

"There'll be nothing else on television for weeks".
 

chris123

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So they're announcing today because of the news today of inflation "dropping" right? So the campaign feels pretty predictable, we are really gonna get the tories making the argument of economic stability vs chaos with Keir Starmer aren't we?
 

Mr Pigeon

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So they're announcing today because of the news today of inflation "dropping" right? So the campaign feels pretty predictable, we are really gonna get the tories making the argument of economic stability vs chaos with Keir Starmer aren't we?
I fully expect Sunak to say things like "food PRICES are returning to normal" rather than price rises, political commentators surprisingly not correcting him, people falling for it, Sweet Square suddenly becoming active when Starmer eats a bacon sandwich in a weird way, and it all ending up in a hung parliament.

Oh, and Twitter skulduggery up to the maximum. Fake videos, fake polls. The works.