Roane
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- Jun 22, 2020
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Give me an overviewYes well that would be the rest of the book.
The abu hassan al asharee quite gives me a little insight
Give me an overviewYes well that would be the rest of the book.
If he or she considered themselves Muslim, then yes.Would you call them muslim?
A lot of modern Jews became cultural Jews after WW2 because there was no way they reconcile the notion of God with the holocaust. So I've heard that most jews living today are not religious.My brother-in-law is Jewish, he follows none of the dietary restrictions, doesn't attend synagogue but still defines himself as Jewish. It's a bit like people who never go to church or think about anything spiritual and then write "Church of England" when asked to give their religion.
Obviously there will be Muslims who don't follow the "rules" as much as others, but would still always identify as Muslim.
It maybe in context of Israel rather than Judaism but the classification is based on heritage rather than practise. So in essence you can be a n atheist and still classed as a Jew.My brother-in-law is Jewish, he follows none of the dietary restrictions, doesn't attend synagogue but still defines himself as Jewish. It's a bit like people who never go to church or think about anything spiritual and then write "Church of England" when asked to give their religion.
Obviously there will be Muslims who don't follow the "rules" as much as others, but would still always identify as Muslim.
As a general rule no I wouldn't.If he or she considered themselves Muslim, then yes.
Would you?
Do you have the authority to decree who and who isn't a Muslim regardless of their self-determination, or is this a case of reading the tenets and understanding them?As a general rule no I wouldn't.
Specific to individuals there may be factors where I would.
I would.Would you call them muslim?
Maybe taking this thread off topic slightly but why wouldn't you? And do you feel it is the place of individual Muslims to make such judgements?As a general rule no I wouldn't.
Specific to individuals there may be factors where I would.
Its quite clear cut, in certain things. And to a degree we, as muslims, are given a certain authourity (with knowledge of certain tenants and understanding them) to make that decreeDo you have the authority to decree who and who isn't a Muslim regardless of their self-determination, or is this a case of reading the tenets and understanding them?
This would require a more in depth response than what I can give, am at work.Maybe taking this thread off topic slightly but why wouldn't you? And do you feel it is the place of individual Muslims to make such judgements?
And the problem with these judgements more generally is where exactly does it stop? I say this as someone who comes initially from a Muslim background and who's wife comes from a half Muslim family. Some of her family would consider a woman who wears trousers for instance to have a sketchy status when it comes to being Muslim. Others if you don't pray 5 times a day. Others if a Muslim woman married a non Muslim man.
Admittedly I'm far more attuned to the Muslim community considering my own circumstances but I've never or very rarely heard of British Jews, Hindus, Sikhs or Christians saying someone isn't a member of their faith because of eating pork, eating beef, not wearing a turban and cutting their hair or wear mixed fabrics.
Quite a few of the atrocities committed by IS in the European countries were committed by non-religious people with a history of drug abuse and mental illnesses.Yes but in this case, the 'cause' involved killing infidels in a country far away from your own. ISIS were not exactly shy about telegraphing what they were doing in Iraq and Syria and some pretty otherwise normal people still decided to go over from the West, many of whom when caught somehow all seemed to be just butchers or engineers or doctors. God knows who was doing any actual fighting there.
I'm not sure people not changing their entire culture to hang out with a Muslim doctor is really the same as having a brutal childhood tbh and I can't see how that can in any way be used as a justification at all.
Kid gets raped by step dad when young, grows up to be a serial killer. I'm not justifying it but yes I can understand why he may have grown up with such a warped view of the world.
Muslim person grows up in the UK, grows up to become a doctor, doesn't get to go to the pub because they see it as against their religion, goes to join ISIS...nope, not the same for me. And I don't really know what people expect or want. Its engrained in British, American and European cultures, rightly or wrongly. A lot of hospital socials involve alcohol. Some non-drinkers still attend, some choose not to.
Either way, it should have about as much impact on their decision to join ISIS as their hair colour.
My own thoughts on it are probably best saved for a different thread. Here’s a positive review if you’re interested -https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/archive/contradiction-and-diversity/tnamp/Give me an overview
The abu hassan al asharee quite gives me a little insight
I think that's what you call a secular Jew? Maybe the Muslim equivalent would be a cultural Muslim?My brother-in-law is Jewish, he follows none of the dietary restrictions, doesn't attend synagogue but still defines himself as Jewish. It's a bit like people who never go to church or think about anything spiritual and then write "Church of England" when asked to give their religion.
Obviously there will be Muslims who don't follow the "rules" as much as others, but would still always identify as Muslim.
Secular Muslim is actually an often used term, as far as I know.I think that's what you call a secular Jew? Maybe the Muslim equivalent would be a cultural Muslim?
I haven't come across it that much, but don't have any objection if someone wants to identify as such. I guess either terms work.Secular Muslim is actually an often used term, as far as I know.
Cheers I'll have read when I get a moment.My own thoughts on it are probably best saved for a different thread. Here’s a positive review if you’re interested -https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/archive/contradiction-and-diversity/tnamp/
I think you’re probably reading too much into a single quote by the way.
Yes, it seems like different terms for the same thing, and I guess both are understood.I haven't come across it that much, but don't have any objection if someone wants to identify as such. I guess either terms work.
The author quotes widely throughout, his is not an argument based on an allegiance to any particular school of thought - indeed that would contradict exactly what he’s trying to do in the book.Cheers I'll have read when I get a moment.
Yeah I think I sometimes go off in my head. Thing is that I can usually "understand" the basis of an argument based on who a person uses in their argument, about Islam. So Ashari sect bases arguments require a different discussion than say salafis or sufi etc.
For most of Europeans English is not their native language and foreign languages tend to have different words. Unlike the UK European countries tend to have no considerable Pakistani community as not many Pakistani and those not forming an actual community. I recently helped a friend move to a sleepy 2000 souls village in the rural North of the Netherlands, and in his eagerness to show to us city folks that helped him moving the village wasn't that backward and his personal enthousiasm for the multicultural society he mentioned that his neighbour had Pakistani background by abbreviating it colloquially. Because of the similarity between Dutch and English in this I warned him this could be seen as a racial/ethnic slur and not just an abbreviation and the rest of the city folks agreed so little chance of him starting off on the wrong foot with his mixed neighbour couple.Do you think the N and P word doesn't happen in europe?
Of course. No idea if they're real muslims or good muslims and frankly I don't care. Apostasy is a taboo in islam, that's a given for me, they don't renounce islam like born christians often do. Who I'm a to claim someone isn't muslim who thinks he is while having a beer with me? Or something non-alcoholic, I don't have much of an opinion on what other people drink anyway. But I'm well aware it's not a representation of the entire muslim community I'm having drinks with, there's a preselection that simply happens much like the fact that I don't have drinks with stern calvinists very often. No, I'm not welcoming to people who are uncomfortable with other people drinking alcohol and I have little chance of meeting them. I'm not welcoming to people with an ideology that might get them to join IS later on either but that tends to be a self-segregating bunch I'm not in touch with anyway.Muslims having drinks with you?
I'm pretty sure you don't have drinks with any Muslims mate, let's face it. Your posts reek of prejudice.The P word and the N word in Europe? Not going for drinks with someone who some time later beheads or drives a tank over people who have drunk alcohol seems to me a matter of good character judgement rather than discrimination. Besides that why would I believe them anyway, not just because they joined IS which is quite an extreme reaction and not being welocmed a lousy excuse, quite a few muslims also have a habit of blaming everybody and everything but never their religion (or themselves, but that might differ between islamic cultures). I'm pretty sure the muslims I have drinks with would never join IS.
I don't think the average Muslim has the authority or knowledge to do that. Muslims believe in the omnipotence of Allah, let him judge.This would require a more in depth response than what I can give, am at work.
However the authourity is given to make certain judgements, based on scripture and hadith and scholarly understandings.
To be clear discussing something and actually applying it to an individual are different.
Also depends on the point being discussed. So to use your examples, the wearing of certain trousers by a woman is not something you would automatically say makes a person a non muslim, yet a Muslim marrying a non muslim has clear "guidelines" that are easier to make a judgement.
Edit:. No need for apologies. But yeah I am British. Although not born here
That's LV wallet?
Ok?My country there's a muslim majority. Indonesia.
The concept is everyone is a muslim. You can steal, eat pork, watch porn, rape, and you'll still be called a muslim. If it goes to trial normally the public would be told that X is a good muslim who does his prayers and his neighbours never expected he was a criminal. You can become a hooker, stripper, and still you will be labelled a muslim. Hijab or no hijab.
Some muslim grou will jeer and made a kafir out of felow Muslims claiming you're not one if you dont do x. X for example works at banking industry (interest is haram). Absurd level. Some even quit their day job and sells parfume door to door. If you vote for a chinese christian fellow for govetnor, you will go to hell and your corpse wont get bathed and given rites of passages. Or you're not a good muslim if you say merry xmas to your neighbors, no happy valentine either because it's jewish tradition.
Some reasoning are quite hillarious. So you're always a muslim. But you arent a muslim some other times.
Your point being?
I’m trying to figure out yours. What’s that got to do with anything about Shamima Begum and her status as a UK citizen?Your point being?
Like Jack Letts?Honestly, you need to take her back.
Poor kid, she has suffered so much. (Yes, most of it through the fault of hers or her parents, but still.. if she had been Sheena Reeves from Leeds she would have been back in the UK already.)
Because there's a discussion on what makes a muslim in this page.I’m trying to figure out yours. What’s that got to do with anything about Shamima Begum and her status as a UK citizen?
Read the previous posts.I’m trying to figure out yours. What’s that got to do with anything about Shamima Begum and her status as a UK citizen?
Hell, probably.Where is she supposed to go?
Which one? The Christian one or the Muslim one?Hell, probably.