[unimaginative_name]

More like in a fantasy world. Get real, the teams you're mentioning have worse players than the ones you mentioned in our squad. It ain't always about the first 11 in football because that is just not enough to win trophies.

You genuinely believe that their first 11 has players worse than those in our squad?

Dude, in last 3 years, the top scorer of our club is probably (can't be bothered to check the stats, cos I know it's piss poor) Wayne Rooney, that's enough to say how bad our forwards have been.

Please don't blame our defenders and midfielders for the failure of these forwards. If the forwards are genuinely good enough, they can create a lot of chance themselves alone. The trios of Messi-Suarez-Neymar or Ronaldo-Benzema-Bale create a lot of chances without much help of the defense and midfield.

Mark my words, our first XI is even worse than the fully substituted second XI of all these 3 clubs. The fact that we are a midtable club and they are Champions League favorites back me up on that argument.

If you are good enough, you should prove it performances week in week out.

 

[kouroux]

You genuinely believe that their first 11 has players worse than those in our squad?

Dude, in last 3 years, the top scorer of our club is probably (can't be bothered to check the stats, cos I know it's piss poor) Wayne Rooney, that's enough to say how bad our forwards have been.

Please don't blame our defenders and midfielders for the failure of these forwards. If the forwards are genuinely good enough, they can create a lot of chance themselves alone. The trios of Messi-Suarez-Neymar or Ronaldo-Benzema-Bale create a lot of chances without much help of the defense and midfield.

Mark my words, our first XI is even worse than the fully substituted second XI of all these 3 clubs. The fact that we are a midtable club and they are Champions League favorites back me up on that argument.

If you are good enough, you should prove it performances week in week out.

Like I said, football isn't just about the first 11. It is too narrow minded and borderline stupid to look at things like that, it's all about having a balanced squad with good quality if any starters get injured, tired or suspended. We don't have an individual problem, it doesn't mean our players are better than the ones at the best teams but some of them are but we need to get better as a team. Between the Real/Barca level and where we are, there is a big difference without even needing to buy more. The room for improvement is big.

 

[harms]

I actually thought that he looked quite poor albeit for the goals, but it can be a confirmation bias.
Anyway, a player who gets 1+1 in a game has done his job well.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Gotta just say it how it is, since being dropped he has definitely upped his performances massively.
Let's hope he keeps it up if he rightfully stays in the team now and he doesn't fall back into his comfort zone.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It only means that other players are not performing well either, doesn't mean United are worse without Rooney or that Rooney is the answer to our problems. We only have Martial, Rashford, who are probably good enough for absolute top level as attackers.

In an ideal world I'd never have the likes of Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Mata, Lingard, Depay, Mkhitaryan at a United team. These players would never get into the current Bayern, Real and Barca teams. I personally only deem the players playing in those 3 teams as world class, outside them not many are world class, apart from, may be, Riyad Mahrez, Griezmann, Aguero (and probably Leroy Sane as a youngster).

 

[Rossa]

I don't particularly like a green smiley as an argument, but you are spot on there, mate!

 

[stevoc]

It only means that other players are not performing well either, doesn't mean United are worse without Rooney or that Rooney is the answer to our problems. We only have Martial, Rashford, who are probably good enough for absolute top level as attackers.

In an ideal world I'd never have the likes of Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Mata, Lingard, Depay, Mkhitaryan at a United team. These players would never get into the current Bayern, Real and Barca teams. I personally only deem the players playing in those 3 teams as world class, outside them not many are world class, apart from, may be, Riyad Mahrez, Griezmann, Aguero (and probably Leroy Sane as a youngster).

Between this and the Giggs dribbling stuff a few weeks back, you obviously have a very unique way of looking at football.

 

[JPRouve]

You genuinely believe that their first 11 has players worse than those in our squad?

Valencia is a better right back than Sergi Roberto, Lucas Vasquez isn't better than Mata or Mkhitaryan, Varane is barely better than Bailly and Ibrahimovic could probably start for Madrid.

 

[JPRouve]

The best CB, Bonucci, isn't even playing for those teams.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The best CB, Bonucci, isn't even playing for those teams.

It's such a bizarrely narrow list. My favourite bit is the "maybe, Mahrez etc"

 

[sammsky1]

Happy for him that he did well last night - it seems as though his recent 'burning platform' is providing extra impetus to elevate performances.

He has done several things to justifiably turn supporters against him. But in my opinion, over criticising him is a counter productive: Everyone needs encouragement and support and so whist he remains at our club, we should support him especially when the rest of the world is out to get him.

I also think his long contribution to the club should entitle him to some slack: he is on the verge of breaking so many long standing club records. Whether he deserves to break those records is a moot point: the main relevance is that very long commitment and service.

 

[unimaginative_name]

I don't particularly like a green smiley as an argument, but you are spot on there, mate!

Between this and the Giggs dribbling stuff a few weeks back, you obviously have a very unique way of looking at football.

It's such a bizarrely narrow list. My favourite bit is the "maybe, Mahrez etc"

You guys certainly have a low standard for considering a player "world class". I guess my standards are like Sir Alex's , like him I never rated Gerrard or Lampard as world class either. Although I did differ with Sir Alex about Giggs.

Valencia is a better right back than Sergi Roberto, Lucas Vasquez isn't better than Mata or Mkhitaryan, Varane is barely better than Bailly and Ibrahimovic could probably start for Madrid.

Sergi Roberto and Lucas Vasquez aren't anywhere near to be nailed on first team players for their respective clubs. Varane is behind Pepe and Ramos in the pecking order. Did you see the part "You genuinely believe that their first 11" in my post?

Ibrahimovic failed in the only true great side he played for (Barcelona), what makes you think he could start for Madrid? He is failing at United, why do you think he could succeed at the club with the highest expectations in the world?

The best CB, Bonucci, isn't even playing for those teams.

I like Bonucci a lot, I admit he is one of the very I've missed out from that list. I also missed Godin as well, should have mentioned him. Having said that, I cannot certainly say that Bonucci and Godin are better than the likes of Pique, Ramos, Boateng. Personally I don't like Boateng much, but he, Ramos and Pique, have achieved so much in their careers, not just with the clubs, but also with the national teams, I cannot say they are inferior to Bonucci and Godin.

 

[stevoc]

You guys certainly have a low standard for considering a player "world class".

Huh?

Out of interest you think Mahrez and Sane are World class but Giggs wasn't?

If so as i said you have a very unique way of looking at football.

 

[Mockney]

I blame FIFA Ultimate team for shit like this.

 

[JPRouve]

Sergi Roberto and Lucas Vasquez aren't anywhere near to be nailed on first team players for their respective clubs. Varane is behind Pepe and Ramos in the pecking order. Did you see the part "You genuinely believe that their first 11" in my post?

Ibrahimovic failed in the only true great side he played for (Barcelona), what makes you think he could start for Madrid? He is failing at United, why do you think he could succeed at the club with the highest expectations in the world?

Ibrahimovic didn't failed at Barcelona, Varane has been a starter this season for Madrid and if you can put Mkhitaryan who isn't a starter for us, I can use Lucas Vasquez as an example.

 

[kidbob]

That pass to mata was one of the best assists I've ever seen. The way he faked to shoot and then weighted it perfect was great.

He clearly still has ability but he isn't up to the demands of playing all the time and struggles with the deterioration of his pace. Used properly and sparingly he's still capable of being important.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Fun Rooney stat:-

Out of the top 9 players with most assists so far in the PL, if you work out minutes played before they assist on average, Rooney is 4th in the league this season.

Top 5

Pedro/97.8mins per assist
KDB/121.7 mins per assist
Lallana/154.6 mins per assist
Rooney/156 mins per assist
Zaha/184.8 mins per assist

 

[Icemav]

Gotta just say it how it is, since being dropped he has definitely upped his performances massively.
Let's hope he keeps it up if he rightfully stays in the team now and he doesn't fall back into his comfort zone.

If we've learnt anything it's that resting/dropping Rooney is both good for him and the team. It's got him fired up and sharper having fewer minutes. Long may it continue.

 

[Amar__]

That pass to mata was one of the best assists I've ever seen.

Seriously?

I thought he had a good game but he gets too much praise for the assist, as soon as they played the ball to him I expected him to make a pass instead of shooting because he was bit too wide already and the pass was the logical solution, IMO.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Another fun Rooney stat:-

He has 3 goals and 7 assists in 909 minutes for us so far this season. That is a goal or assist every 90.9 minutes!

Compare that to

KDB/110.09min per goal/assist
Coutinho/93mins per goal/assist

 

[dichinero]

Seriously

Whats wrong with the comment? It's one of the best he's seen. It's a question of how many he's ever seen.

 

[Devil may care]

Leroy Sane and Mahrez as world class?

Seriously?

I thought he had a good game but he gets too much praise for the assist, as soon as they played the ball to him I expected him to make a pass instead of shooting because he was bit too wide already and the pass was the logical solution, IMO.

Robbie Savage's commentary on the assist was hilarious, apparently only Scholes and Pirlo could have made it.

 

[Cutch]

Seriously?

I thought he had a good game but he gets too much praise for the assist, as soon as they played the ball to him I expected him to make a pass instead of shooting because he was bit too wide already and the pass was the logical solution, IMO.

Yeah, got to give Rooney some credit for the assist but the likes of Savage was going way overboard i thought. I think Rooney rightly decided he was going too wide for the shot and so went for a blind pass into an area that if someone made the right run they'd have a tap in, which gladly Mata did.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Yeah, got to give Rooney some credit for the assist but the likes of Savage was going way overboard i thought. I think Rooney rightly decided he was going too wide for the shot and so went for a blind pass into an area that if someone made the right run they'd have a tap in, which gladly Mata did.

Savage loves English players. He is is firmly inserted up Carrick's backside as well.

 

[unimaginative_name]

Leroy Sane and Mahrez as world class?



Robbie Savage's commentary on the assist was hilarious, apparently only Scholes and Pirlo could have made it.

Huh?

Out of interest you think Mahrez and Sane are World class but Giggs wasn't?

If so as i said you have a very unique way of looking at football.

Mahrez was the reason why Leceister won the league last season, he is also the reason why Leceister are now in the 2nd round in UCL. His dribbling is the best in the Premier League (although nowhere near as the likes of Neymar, Messi), scores quite a few goals for a winger, assists a lot as well, that's why he is nearly world class to me.

Giggs never had a season where he was the reason why United won the league, Giggs was more of a sidekick in a team full of brilliant players. He was mediocre for Wales as well, whereas Bale has shown even with a mediocre national team, you can do well.

As for Leroy Sane, every time I've seen him play for City, he looked very good, he seems to get past defenders far more easily than any of our wingers do. As a 19 year old, I think he's the potential to be world class, I never said he is already world class.

 

[Devil may care]

Mahrez was the reason why Leceister won the league last season, he is also the reason why Leceister are now in the 2nd round in UCL. His dribbling is the best in the Premier League (although nowhere near as the likes of Neymar, Messi), scores quite a few goals for a winger, assists a lot as well, that's why he is nearly world class to me. As for Leroy Sane, everytime I've seen him play for City, he looked very good, he seems to get past defenders far more easily than any of our wingers do. As a 19 year old, I think he's the potential to be world class, I never said he is already world class.

Mahrez has been poor this season in the PL and done ok in a weak CL group, but has one really good season to his name, Sane has potential but hasn't actually done anything of note yet, he's done a lot less than Martial or Rashford, however I am sensing that you have a bit of a fetish for dribbling players, and that seems to shape your view of world class or potential to be world class.

 

[unimaginative_name]

Mahrez has been poor this season in the PL and done ok in a weak CL group, but has one really good season to his name, Sane has potential but hasn't actually done anything of note yet, he's done a lot less than Martial or Rashford, however I am sensing that you have a bit of a fetish for dribbling players, and that seems to shape your view of world class or potential to be world class.

Of course, I love dribblers. The best teams almost always have the best dribblers, it's the most beautiful thing in football. Dribbling past defenders and creating chances are harder than anything in football. Almost all the greatest players Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, George Best etc. are/were brilliant dribbling. The current Barcelona side has the best front 3 in the history and this front 3 is the best because they can all dribble and curve open any defense. The 2009, 2011 Champions League winning Barca sides also had teams where their front 5 could all (May be not so with Villa) take defenders on and dribble past them quite easily.

Btw, I did say Rashford and Martial are the only current forwards good enough for United. They are pretty good dribblers, that's one part of their being good enough. I'd like to have a front 3 which are as effective in opening the opposition defense as MSN are.

 

[Devil may care]

Of course, I love dribblers. The best teams almost always have the best dribblers, it's the most beautiful thing in football. Dribbling past defenders and creating chances are harder than anything in football. Almost all the greatest players Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, George Best etc. are/were brilliant dribbling. The current Barcelona side has the best front 3 in the history and this front 3 is the best because they can all dribble and curve open any defense. The 2009, 2011 Champions League winning Barca sides also had teams where their front 5 could all (May be not so with Villa) take defenders on and dribble past them quite easily.

Btw, I did say Rashford and Martial are the only current forwards good enough for United. They are pretty good dribblers, that's one part of their being good enough. I'd like to have a front 3 which are as effective in opening the opposition defense as MSN are.

So basically everyone has to dribble? I think the Barca side you mentioned had Iniesta and Messi dribbling in it, but the rest of the attack wasn't great at it, even in the current set up I wouldn't say Suarez is a great dribbler, he just plays like a bulldog and forces his way through in comparison to the dribblling skills of his 2 mates. So you'd get rid of Mkhitaryan, Mata, Ibra and Lingard and start from scratch? I personally like a good dribbler in the ream but I don't see it as essential for world class status, Pirlo and Xavi never dribbled.

 

[stevoc]

Mahrez was the reason why Leceister won the league last season, he is also the reason why Leceister are now in the 2nd round in UCL. His dribbling is the best in the Premier League (although nowhere near as the likes of Neymar, Messi), scores quite a few goals for a winger, assists a lot as well, that's why he is nearly world class to me.

Giggs never had a season where he was the reason why United won the league, Giggs was more of a sidekick in a team full of brilliant players. He was mediocre for Wales as well, whereas Bale has shown even with a mediocre national team, you can do well.

As for Leroy Sane, every time I've seen him play for City, he looked very good, he seems to get past defenders far more easily than any of our wingers do. As a 19 year old, I think he's the potential to be world class, I never said he is already world class.

You really don't rate Giggs it seems. Anyway agree to disagree as this isn't the thread to discuss Giggs, Mahrez or batshit crazy opinions on football.

I blame FIFA Ultimate team for shit like this.

It certainly contributes.

 

[Amar__]

Whats wrong with the comment? It's one of the best he's seen. It's a question of how many he's ever seen.

Around 20 I'd say then. Pretty sure Rooney had at least one better just this season.

 

[dichinero]

Around 20 I'd say then. Pretty sure Rooney had at least one better just this season.

More like 5

 

[Litch]

The haters will always hate but I thought he was superb yesterday. The finish and the assist was worth the entrance fee. Say what you like but there was 70,000 people who didn't see that pass on to Mata until it was in the net. I'm hoping this is the start of something as a good Rooney amounts to winning football matches, as yes proven time and time again...

 

[Popovic]

MOTM for me yesterday. His movement was excellent and his touch was much better he looked way sharper. Added a nice goal and an assist to his name to top of a great performance.

 

[Womp]

The haters will always hate but I thought he was superb yesterday. The finish and the assist was worth the entrance fee. Say what you like but there was 70,000 people who didn't see that pass on to Mata until it was in the net. I'm hoping this is the start of something as a good Rooney amounts to winning football matches, as yes proven time and time again...

Rubbish like this is what grinds my gears. Many of his "haters", who by the way, don't actually hate him but want what's best for the club, have come out and said he was good last game, myself included.

 

[Zlaatan]

Seriously?

I thought he had a good game but he gets too much praise for the assist, as soon as they played the ball to him I expected him to make a pass instead of shooting because he was bit too wide already and the pass was the logical solution, IMO.

You expecting him to make that pass with a birds eye view of the pitch or it being the logical solution doesn't make it any less impressive. It's a bit different to actually do things down on the pitch rather than seeing it on a tv and implying that everyone would have/could have made that pass.

 

[littleman]

His form is improving, after real, warranted and justifiable criticism.

If Rooney plays better when his ass is on the line and on fire, long may his ass be on the line.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Yes he's playing better, but it just annoys me that it takes the press having a dig, or him been dropped to finally find a bit of form, it was the same last season.

Personally I find it sad that it's only damage to his ego that seems inspire him nowadays, once all this calms down, and he is untouchable again, then I expect the early season Rooney to reappear.

 

[Litch]

Rubbish like this is what grinds my gears. Many of his "haters", who by the way, don't actually hate him but want what's best for the club, have come out and said he was good last game, myself included.

Rather than speak for everyone, you'd be best placed speaking for yourself. I'll own my opinion that haters will hate irrespective of what Rooney does, and the vultures will be soon circling for the next time he does something wrong.

Can't deny his forms been poor or he's not the player he was but his bar is higher than any other English player of his generation so naturally he's going to seen differently.

 

[kidbob]

Seriously?

I thought he had a good game but he gets too much praise for the assist, as soon as they played the ball to him I expected him to make a pass instead of shooting because he was bit too wide already and the pass was the logical solution, IMO.

Maybe a bit over the top but it's definitely an assist that deserves praising for any player to pull it off. To fake a shot and play a perfect weight pass unsighted into Mata was no mean feat. I'm not going to over the top either, he had a good game but that type of performance should be the lowest level expected from a player like him.

Seems that it's still the case if he plays well then the team plays well. Be very good to have him, Mikhi and Martial all firing to a good level.

 

[Dir Wangem]

There's no way around it: he was in fact good vs Feyenoord. But the problem is that he's has been doing the same thing for years now. He'll generally be mediocre/bad for most of the season, and then he'll have the odd run of 2-3 games where he's playing really well. Since he's being heavily criticized almost daily, his defenders are gonna come out hard every time this happens, as a way to counter things while the topic is still hot.

"Oh, what a shocker. The United legend still has it!"
"It's disusting to think about how poorly our so-called fans have been treating him lately. Way to prove your critics wrong, Wayne!"
"This proves that Rooney is not the problem! Benching him is clearly not the solution"

It pleases me to see that this is not as common as it was 1 or 2 years ago, but unfortunately it still happens.