Create a straw-man to defend the indefensible. Desperate but riveting stuff.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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In the Zlatan thread I quoted someone who said one one should be dropped, and as you said, I said two should be dropped if needs be. However; I can't remember saying it in this exchange.You just said during this exchange that Rooney should be dropped after the Watford game. You've said it on other occasions as well. In the Zlatan thread for example you said both should be dropped.
Zlatan scored against City and put the cross in for the Watford goal(not much of a contribution but you'd point it out were it Rooney).
So not sure what you're on about at all here.
This is just paranoia now. So you can't find one post in all these pages that says dropping Rooney would solve ALL our problems but you still believe it's a popular opinion? Where as on this page alone there are several posters who want him dropped but accept it won't fix everything.
What has Rooney done to you guys
I guess you can read my mind now then.
Of course this page or pages after the Feyenoord game have posters stating it won't fix everything, because the fools finally know he's not the only problem.
Let's just never fix any problems because we have other problems.
Edit: He is one of, if not the biggest problem/s.
Edit: He is one of, if not the biggest problem/s.
Just stop it as its pointless arguing with him.You just said during this exchange that Rooney should be dropped after the Watford game. You've said it on other occasions as well. In the Zlatan thread for example you said both should be dropped.
Zlatan scored against City and put the cross in for the Watford goal(not much of a contribution but you'd point it out were it Rooney).
So not sure what you're on about at all here.
This is just paranoia now. So you can't find one post in all these pages that says dropping Rooney would solve ALL our problems but you still believe it's a popular opinion? Where as on this page alone there are several posters who want him dropped but accept it won't fix everything.
What has Rooney done to you guys
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rooney-is-finished.421893/
@Walters_19_MuFc voted he isn't finished. There's quite a few of those 38 are joking around, but we all know Walter isn't as he is one of the diehard Rooney supporters. Seems to support Rooney more than the club.
Lingard or Rashford would have collected that in their stride and attacked the inside right channel straight away. Fatty on the other hand...
Absolute gold reading Walters19's last few posts, fair play @Dobbs for even trying to engage in logical thought
No one is absolving Pogba or the rest of the team for their sh|te performances but you denying Rooney doesn't affect them is baffling.
If I play a sh|t pass to you and you fail to control it does that make you sh|t?
If I am incapable of playing one-twos and controlling the ball does it make you sh|t when you try to dictact play from deep and try to take the iniative by dribbling through more than one player (because I'm not offering myself as an option for the pass or simply the opposition doesn't care about me and is concerned about you).
If I'm a no.10 and I choose to only take the ball from the deep midfield areas because let's be honest that's where I can get all the time and space in the world, does that make you sh|t when you can't score or get any decent chances in/around the box?
He's irrelevant because his ability makes him so. Therefore, the team is carrying a passenger that not only takes up the most important space of the pitch but also offers no quality when he finally does get the ball.
It's a butterfly/domino effect that you don't seem to grasp. At this level, everyone has to be on point. It doesn't matter if you're Pogba or Messi, there has to be cohesion all over the pitch.
I can't see clubs paying money to get Rooney. Is he even worth £10m anymore?
He is worth 50m if he is ready to go to China.
You mean they pick just what they want to support their theory?
No club would even pay £10, to speak nothing of £10m.
Maybe Moyesy still thinks he's with the rest of that contract? I don't think even Sunderland fans would want him stinking out the SoL for another 3 years.
It's crazy ha, now that the statistical anomalies in his performances have dried up we are now hearing a new set of excuses ranging from; dropping him won't solve a thing to others were just as bad. All this being said whilst ignoring that this is the Wayne Rooney thread, that others haven't been poor to average for three seasons and that you don't necessarily have to be the worst player on the pitch to get dropped - you simply have to be worst option in your position - which Wayne is atm!
Should I go round Wayne's house and stamp on his toys?Gene Hunt mode.
3. Is Rooney holding back United?
REDKNAPP: I’ve said it so many times in these pages — I don’t understand playing Rooney as a midfielder. He may feel like he hasn’t got the pace to play up front anymore, but for me he plays as a striker or not at all. Mourinho has to put his players in their best positions, which isn’t happening at the moment as he’s got too many of the same type. It’s going to be fascinating to see if he can do this without upsetting one of the big boys.
KEOWN: It seems Rooney has lost some of his spark, change of pace and extra determination and he doesn’t play with the same edge as he used to. He is struggling to influence the game high up the pitch so, yes, I think playing him as a No 10 is holding back United. Paul Scholes dropped further back into the midfield towards the end of his career so it would seem the natural thing for Rooney to do. But Mourinho said at the start of his tenure that Rooney isn’t a No 6 or a No 8, so where does he play him?
SUTTON: If Pep Guardiola was the manager of Manchester United Wayne Rooney would be dropped immediately. Rooney is a problem for both Jose Mourinho and England manager Sam Allardyce. Putting it simply, there are better players in his position for both club and country now. Mourinho has got to be brave enough to leave Rooney out. United have lacked pace, Zlatan Ibrahimovic is not the sort of striker who will move in behind the defence and Rooney is no longer a No 10 who does that. either. I would have the best player in Germany last year, Henrikh Mkhitaryan, playing instead of him for United and for England I would pick Dele Alli. Rooney is holding both teams back. It is as simple as that. The problems really all come down to Rooney. He is the major issue here. If you leave him out it gives you far more options. Rooney has had his day.
Clearly Sutton and Rooney aren't mates then. Some brutally harsh words.
REDKNAPP: I’ve said it so many times in these pages — I don’t understand playing Rooney as a midfielder. He may feel like he hasn’t got the pace to play up front anymore, but for me he plays as a striker or not at all. Mourinho has to put his players in their best positions, which isn’t happening at the moment as he’s got too many of the same type. It’s going to be fascinating to see if he can do this without upsetting one of the big boys.
KEOWN: It seems Rooney has lost some of his spark, change of pace and extra determination and he doesn’t play with the same edge as he used to. He is struggling to influence the game high up the pitch so, yes, I think playing him as a No 10 is holding back United. Paul Scholes dropped further back into the midfield towards the end of his career so it would seem the natural thing for Rooney to do. But Mourinho said at the start of his tenure that Rooney isn’t a No 6 or a No 8, so where does he play him?
SUTTON: If Pep Guardiola was the manager of Manchester United Wayne Rooney would be dropped immediately. Rooney is a problem for both Jose Mourinho and England manager Sam Allardyce. Putting it simply, there are better players in his position for both club and country now. Mourinho has got to be brave enough to leave Rooney out. United have lacked pace, Zlatan Ibrahimovic is not the sort of striker who will move in behind the defence and Rooney is no longer a No 10 who does that. either. I would have the best player in Germany last year, Henrikh Mkhitaryan, playing instead of him for United and for England I would pick Dele Alli. Rooney is holding both teams back. It is as simple as that. The problems really all come down to Rooney. He is the major issue here. If you leave him out it gives you far more options. Rooney has had his day.
Clearly Sutton and Rooney aren't mates then. Some brutally harsh words.
Why does every time two people disagree have to mean someone is failing to grasp something? maybe we just disagree? I mean given there isn't a single incident of Rooney passing to Pogba poorly and then him failming to control it from the game so I feel you are on the ropes but, I've grasped your point, I just disagree, lets leave it there, I have other things to do. Namely read about who chris Sutton is laying in to today or maybe which school class he has gone in to to inform santa isn't real, guy is brutal, but great for it.
I agree with most of these quotes but the underlined bit is nonsense, just because Scholes did it doesn't mean it will work for Rooney or anyone else.
You're just a very confusing poster. You know you've said Rooney should be dropped but now you're claiming you haven't. See below:
On Rooney and Ibra:
In response you said:
So please stop messing about in this thread. It does nothing at all for the debate.
Personally I don't think it's on that you can keep arguing this point that dropping Rooney won't solve all our problems. Nobody is saying that, I've asked you to find examples of posters doing so and you can't. Instead you claim that's what's in our thoughts and we're fools for thinking so. I don't think it's right that you're allowed to clog up the debate by arguing against a point that nobody is making. It's a straw man argument taken to the extreme.
Scholes had the imagination, vision, passing range (long & short) and reading of the game, Rooney will NEVER have.
Scholes also got better with age (and retired from England duty early) whereas Rooney peaked 5 years ago. Comparisons between the two are nonsense, Rooney can barely control a football these days.
Harsh but fair, he's objectively spot on. Simply mentioning the bleeding obvious, which most so-called 'pundits' fail to realise.
Is this 'footballing age' a myth or has it been scientifically proven? As in, when you play lots of matches since a very young age (Rooney at 16/17 years old) your legs (or body) will regress faster than other players.
When Scholes gave the ball away I was shocked, as it happened that rarely. With Rooney I'm surprised when he doesn't. There's no comparison.
Terrible. Funny but terrible as well.
Its mad. His teammates look pissed. Penny for their thoughts
I've mentioned before that I think there is trouble brewing in that dressing room, especially with Zlatan. Sorry Wayne but organising a good night out at a Weatherspoons is not going to win him over.
Yes your body does regress but it is not as significant as people make out. In Rooney's case, it's a big fat excuse. He's not the only player in football history to have clocked such mileage yet he's the only one the the excuse is viable for. Some will argue that he's decline has been for a few years now, let's say around 27/28 years old. The truth is very obvious;
1) He has not been professional about his physique, given the amount of money he earns and the advanced sport science.
2) Maybe he has always been overrated like many English players over the years. He was at one time rated amongst the top 3 young talents alongside Messi and Ronaldo but the later two have left him behind for how many seasons now? 5,6?
Combine those two and his decline should not a shock. That's not denying that when he was good, he was really good.
He has been messed about with his positions which has left him a master of none. (Ruud Gullit)
I kinda disagree with that tbh.
This all started when Rooney was shifter to the left to allow Ronaldo to play up top. I often see this as him "sacrificing" himself which is rubbish. If he was performing better than Ronaldo up front, a position where he was ahead of Ronaldo in pecking order, Fergie would not have moved him. Ever since then, whenever Rooney has made way for a better player even Kane for England it is called a sacrifice.
The other excuse is that because he runs a lot for the team, it is also a sacrifice. It's the only way he knows how to play, so how is it a sacrifice? It is admirable that he tracks back or chases second balls even if a good number come from his poor touches but it's not a sacrifice. Why don't we call the likes of Milner, O'Shea, Park etc players that have sacrificed so much for their clubs? Sacrifice is doing something that makes you exert yourself beyond your usual self. Wanna talk sacrifice, take a look a Pep's teams. These guys must bust their guts every day in training to maintain such a high pressure game, or Simeone's boys, or Leicester boys who have to spend a lot of time punishing themselves in that cryo chamber.
And I repeat, Rooeny's work rate is admirable but it's not a sacrifice when you are doing what you enjoy, play the only way you know how and being massively overpaid while you are at it.
google the word sacrifice. I found this.
sacrifice - "A highly renowned international footballer getting moved around positions to accommodate "better" players, whilst not calling a press conference to air his frustrations."
And I'm the confusing poster?
I love how you've conveniently quoted me to suit your argument.
First of all, what you've quoted me was said after you suggested I said claimed I said he should be dropped.
My response, which as I said, was said after you had already claimed I said he should be dropped. You've obviously searched around and couldn't find anything.
Also, if you look at the quote above, I said, if he no longer performs like he did against Watford, which normally means, if he carries on not contributing then yes, he should be dropped. Again, you conveniently left out where I said Ibra should too.
Now, let's look at the other quotes.
I already stated that if both Ibra and Rooney don't contribute that Rashford and Mkhitaryan could replace them
The other bit where I put 'well he fecking should', again, if you're going to quote me, then please quote the whole sentence.
This quote was more for Ibra because as I said, he gets half the criticism Rooney gets. Fact!
As I said before, no one has personally said they think dropping Rooney would solve every problem, (not that I know of. I'm not going through whole thread)
but, in my opinion, I feel that's what people were/are thinking.
Now onto the debate. You keep saying i'm messing about, yet you keep replying. If you think it's clogging up the thread, then don't give me any to reply to. If you carry on, don't moan when I give my opinion. It's a forum, after all.
What's pointless is you getting involved in debates you don't quite understand.
As someone without a sking in the Rooney game I have to say the way you construct your arguments is shocking. Or maybe I'm not reading between the lines enough.
Fancy elaborating?
Your premise is flawed because it is based on an argument literally nobody has made, you create constant strawmen and backpedal on your own words.
Maybe I'm biased because I think Rooney has become the worst value for money deal in the world of football, but your entire point is based on nonsensical between-the-lines-reading. If that is the sole foundation for an argument you could pretty much argue anything against any post. I could, for example, read between the lines that you're a die hard Rooney fanboy that can't stand people rightly ripping on your favorite which leads to you becoming defensive and creating strawmen to defend him. I'm not saying you are, but I could read that between the lines easily... and worse.
Fair enough. Won't stop me from giving my opinion, though, unfortunately.
The most annoying thing in all this is how easy it is for other players to get benched. Blind and Mikhi are probably fecked after 1 bad game, Mata and Herrera get benched even after good games, but Rooney?....stinker after stinker after stinker he plays, when it's too much to bear he's moved to some other postion stink up. Said it before that I don't even have anything against him anymore, poor guy isn't going to bench himself. I'm just so dissapointed in Mourinho most of all in all this, I had so much faith in him sorting this Rooney mess out, yet here he is playing Rooney on the wing when he's shit in the midfield he said he wasn't going to play him in. If he persists with Rooney next game ill totally lose faith in him and start counting the days till he gets sacked, I know it sounds crazy but that's just the way I feel about these coaches who watch Rooney and think he's good enough
its early days. If Jose goes down, he will take people with him.
Well said, I was expecting Jose to be ruthless and let's hope he's just letting Wayne show everyone why he's going to be dropped, unfortunately I expected the same from LVB which he was with everyone but Rooney.
Fingers crossed Jose does the right thing.
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